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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vrecknidj" data-source="post: 1562791" data-attributes="member: 7301">Even back in 2e (probably back in 1e) I figured that there was a simple way to progress spells beyond 9th.  Here's my line of thought for 3e.We don't need Epic Spells (in part, like you said, because most of them suck).  We can just have spells of 10th level and above that aren't simply feat-enhanced versions of 9th and lower spells.  So, in effect, any spell of 10th level or higher (that isn't feat-enhanced, is "epic" because we house rule that you have to have 21 levels in a spell-casting class to qualify).1) The DMG shows nice little tables for damage caps per spell level--this can be extended indefinitely.2) If you compare the differences between a Limited Wish and a Wish, you can then create another spell (Greater Wish?) that's perhaps 11th level, that's proportionately more powerful than the Wish, as Wish was to Limited Wish.3) For every chain of spells that's already out there, we extend the chain.  For example, from Burning Hands, through Fireball, to Meteor Swarm could eventually emerge spells that cause clouds to rain fire instead of water, or that, instead of briefly tapping the plane of fire to evoke damage, tap that plane a little longer (a region the size of a fireball that lasts for a few rounds).4) Since there are already spells that create things like undead, 10th level and higher spells could create really nasty undead, things far tougher than a spectre or wraith.  Create Greater Undead is an 8th level spell, making a single devourer in the case of a 20th level caster.  I'm thinking that as, say, a 12th level variant, some necromancer could create one very scary undead.I read through the Epic Spells when I got the ELH months ago and thought "Hmm, that's a screwy way to do things."Dave</blockquote>

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