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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9374080" data-attributes="member: 6779310">Which is why I didn't cite Dune. But some of the elder Herbert's work, unlike Dune, avoids the hero's transformative journey. Destination Void comes to mind.It's beyond just a justification, tho' - as it's also why I personally dislike Class &amp; Level for sci-fi, because the kind of sci-fi I prefer lacks magic without technological basis, excepting Trek, Star Wars, and the mecha anime I like (Gundam and Robotech - both of which have both magic and the monomyth)... all of which have magic of the type called Psionics or Mentalism in gaming... Star Wars' Force is well beyond my ability to accept as Sci-Fi, but nicely fits my tolerances for fantasy. I disliked Alien Resurrection specifically because it introduces telempathy in the resurrected Ripley..Campbell asserted the monomyth was universal; Asimov, Heinlein, Herbert, Niven, and Card all showed that it's not needed to have the monomyth to have a successful novel. And all of those also have other novels where the monomyth is very in one's face.Bujold uses it for some arcs in the Vorkosiverse, and not for others. When Cordelia is introduced, she (and Aral, for that matter) are quite competent; Bothari's already broken with no where to go... and Miles isn't yet extant. (The Cordelia based novels were written first, but released after The Warrior's Apprentice.)Howard's heroes (Kull, Kane, Conan) are likewise quite competent... when written by Howard. I'll note that in the Conan movies, Conan's not on the hero's journey, but the rest of the party seems to be... but the opening flashbacks force the monomyth onto Conan...I know a number of my friends feel similar about the monomyth elements of C&amp;L vs Sci-Fi and Space Opera — and many of us do distinguish the two as low-overlap.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 9374080, member: 6779310"] Which is why I didn't cite Dune. But some of the elder Herbert's work, unlike Dune, avoids the hero's transformative journey. Destination Void comes to mind. It's beyond just a justification, tho' - as it's also why I personally dislike Class & Level for sci-fi, because the kind of sci-fi I prefer lacks magic without technological basis, excepting Trek, Star Wars, and the mecha anime I like (Gundam and Robotech - both of which have both magic and the monomyth)... all of which have magic of the type called Psionics or Mentalism in gaming... Star Wars' Force is well beyond my ability to accept as Sci-Fi, but nicely fits my tolerances for fantasy. I disliked [I][U]Alien Resurrection[/U][/I] specifically because it introduces telempathy in the resurrected Ripley.. Campbell asserted the monomyth was universal; Asimov, Heinlein, Herbert, Niven, and Card all showed that it's not needed to have the monomyth to have a successful novel. And all of those also have other novels where the monomyth is very in one's face. Bujold uses it for some arcs in the Vorkosiverse, and not for others. When Cordelia is introduced, she (and Aral, for that matter) are quite competent; Bothari's already broken with no where to go... and Miles isn't yet extant. (The Cordelia based novels were written first, but released after The Warrior's Apprentice.) Howard's heroes (Kull, Kane, Conan) are likewise quite competent... when written by Howard. I'll note that in the Conan movies, Conan's not on the hero's journey, but the rest of the party seems to be... but the opening flashbacks force the monomyth onto Conan... I know a number of my friends feel similar about the monomyth elements of C&L vs Sci-Fi and Space Opera — and many of us do distinguish the two as low-overlap. [/QUOTE]

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