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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8505207" data-attributes="member: 87792">The problem isn't that D&D is a class based game. It's that it's a level based game. You can be class based without ludicrous leaps. There's a decent case that the White Wolf games were class based. The PbtA games are definitely almost all class based but are class based without being level based.I do not believe you have played any game that uses systems to facilitate things this way. So, with all due respect, your opinion is basically created from ignorance.And these choices had very little mechanical impact. For that matter D&D characters basically don't even pick up wounds when they get hurt thanks to hit points.Have you ever tried any other way? Or are you looking at a newfangled invention and saying that things were good enough in your day? Yes you can use landlines all the time - but I'll keep my smartphones, thank you. And point out that land lines have numerous disadvantages.And believe it or not feedback and taking both into account leads to a better play experience.But the other problem going over your head is that in 5e almost all your choices are made by level 3 unless you multiclass. There is a lot of variety in pre-level 3 characters andOf these almost everything was picked by level 3. After level 3 almost all your progress is on rails.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Race and racial traits (including Size and Speed) - Picked at character creation</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Ability Scores - Picked at character creation. Can get ASIs or Feats at level 4 and 8 (and 6 as a fighter)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Backgrounds - Picked at character creation</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Skills - Picked at character creation.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Fighting Styles - Picked at level 1. The champion fighter gets an extra at level 10 </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Feat selection - Picked at level 4 and 8. And as a fighter at level 6. Almost always at least one of these feats/ASIs is used to boost the highest stat, chosen in character creation.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Armor, shield, and weapon selection - Level 1 choice. You can adjust - but this is interchangeable.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Story / Motivation (and likely Alignment & Personality based on motivation/background) - With basically no mechanics. What mechanics there are (Ideals/Virtues/Flaws/Bonds) are picked at level 1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Role in the party - Without supporting mechanics</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Multiclassing option (one lacks the DEX to be a Rogue, the other lacks the STR and CHA to be a Paladin) - Not actually chosen</li> </ol>The partial differences are all at character creation or in the first three levels. After you've picked the subclass character creation is on rails.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Languages (they share Common, but all other languages are distinct) - Picked at level 1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Although proficient in all weapons and armor, their choices make them distinct: light armor and ranged, heavy armor and melee. - Again this is basically picked at level 1 and you keep the choice throughout</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Remarkable Athlete is shared, but because of skill choices, each will benefit from it in different ways. - Picked at level 3 when you pick the subclass</li> </ol>And just about all the differences were picked at level 1. (Although mostly because  you didn't pick different subclasses or they would be more different). The difference between Str based and Dex based fighters is as large as the difference between subclasses.Fundamentally what you have here is two fighters that started off on different sets of rails at level 1 - and you're pointing out that they are on different rails. Yes, a halfling dex based archer is different from a half orc sword and board fighter. But both of them have been more or less on rails rather than allowed to grow organically.Let's look at all those game-play choices you've made after level 1. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At level 3 both chose to be Champion Fighters</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At level 6 both chose to boost their primary stat by 2.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They each picked a feat that was a +1 to an odd ability score and had a secondary use (observant vs Heavy Armour Mastery)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They each have one other feat<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The archer went for the obvious best feat for an archer in Sharpshooter</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The half-orc picked Inspiring Leader rather than the obvious sword protective and board pick of Sentinel</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They from the champion get to pick a second fighting style</li> </ul>That's a total of five mechanical choices made in nine levels of which they made the same choice for the biggest choice. One's an exact mirror, and two are near mirrors - and most classes will have this sort of mirroring of each other even cross-class on feats.And you fundamentally miss the point. They are two fairly different first level characters who have just got slightly bigger. What they do has not fundamentally changed since level 1 (normally there's a subclass so level 3) and they've grown in almost the same ways - just from different starts.</blockquote>

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