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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8505286" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Maybe newer ones? I played Vampire a long time ago, it didn't have classes.  <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷‍♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging    :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /> No, I haven't, nor do I need to. I get all the character growth out of my character by how I play it and the choices I make. So, as I said, I don't think it is needed.Why do you feel you NEED mechanical impact for character growth? Doesn't the way you play your character have more impact than simply what they can do? This is what I meant by your character just being a bunch of numbers and features on a sheet...Again with the mechanical choices issue. What you really mean is that D&D doesn't support giving you mechanical benefits for the choices you make for your character after your subclass is chosen? Correct?That is why you love warlock and artificer, because all their choices (which as non-martials) gives something nearly every level to choose or replace. You want mechanical benefits to make your character feel organic. I find that rather ironic.You argue the character is "on rails" when really it isn't. Yes, I had similarity in choices I made for feats, but I could just have easily gone with different selections.Let's look at Level 4 and on for a Fighter (Champion), which incidentally is one of the most limited (in choices) subclass by design:4: ASI or feat. You can bump a stat +2, two +1, or select from several feats.5. Extra Attack (no choice)6. ASI or feat7. Remarkable Athlete (no choice, but as I said before can have vastly different impact depending on skill selection).8. ASI or feat9. Indomitable (no choice)10. Fighting Style (choice from 5 remain default options)11. Extra Attack (no choice)12. ASI or feat13. Indomitable (no choice)14. ASI or feat15. Superior Critical (no choice)16. ASI or feat17. Action Surge, Indomitable (no choice)18. Survivor (no choice)19. ASI or feat20. Extra Attack (no choice)Nearly half the levels 8/17) you make a choice with mechanic benefits! And, at every level, you have the option to multiclass if your group uses them. Now, you might feel the ASI or feat choice is boring, which is fine, but it IS a choice.I actually posted a thread about adding more decision points for subclasses, but it got little feedback. I didn't do it because I feel it was needed, I did it because people felt martials were weaker than casters blah blah blah.</blockquote>

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