Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How Complex Should D&D Be?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5027616" data-attributes="member: 80487"><p>With "a lot" on hand, I presume that you can give at least <em>one</em> as an example.</p><p></p><p>Says you, and you can dictate to yourself -- but not to anyone else. What you are looking for are artificial <strong>limits</strong>, and so you see them even though you are imposing them on yourself.</p><p></p><p>The rest of us did not need a sub-game of "skill points" to have our characters be tyro tailors, sailors or retailers. We did not need a complex of "feats" and arcane combat systems when the <strong>basic</strong> mechanisms permitted countless permutations. </p><p></p><p>What you call "mechanical restrictions" are more literally <em>absences of restriction</em>. Without the chessboard, how can we play chess, eh? Gygax made chess-like noises about AD&D, but in the end it was still D&D -- still more like poker!</p><p></p><p>WotC went whole hog into the business of defining what you can and cannot do, and how many hoops you have to jump through just to figure out which is which. Not as a collection of handy optional tools for the DM, but explicitly as THE RULES -- the very <em>means</em> by which character-players are supposed to "play the game" -- as if it were Sorry! or Monopoly. The "freedom" of players, having been so constrained, was made dependent on <em>the DM</em> being bound by dictates. The noisiest part of the player culture made even more ado about that than did the designers.</p><p></p><p>Yes, I understand that. Do you understand that in fact these are not <em>adding</em> a jot or tittle except as interesting examples? That when taken as <strong>prescriptive</strong> they are restrictive?</p><p></p><p>What you celebrate is simply the accumulation of rules -- and that is okay. You can have a whole pile of delightful restrictions without needing to impose them on <strong>everyone</strong>! It is necessary only that they should be <em>available</em> to anyone who <em>wants</em> to play that way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5027616, member: 80487"] With "a lot" on hand, I presume that you can give at least [i]one[/i] as an example. Says you, and you can dictate to yourself -- but not to anyone else. What you are looking for are artificial [b]limits[/b], and so you see them even though you are imposing them on yourself. The rest of us did not need a sub-game of "skill points" to have our characters be tyro tailors, sailors or retailers. We did not need a complex of "feats" and arcane combat systems when the [b]basic[/b] mechanisms permitted countless permutations. What you call "mechanical restrictions" are more literally [i]absences of restriction[/i]. Without the chessboard, how can we play chess, eh? Gygax made chess-like noises about AD&D, but in the end it was still D&D -- still more like poker! WotC went whole hog into the business of defining what you can and cannot do, and how many hoops you have to jump through just to figure out which is which. Not as a collection of handy optional tools for the DM, but explicitly as THE RULES -- the very [i]means[/i] by which character-players are supposed to "play the game" -- as if it were Sorry! or Monopoly. The "freedom" of players, having been so constrained, was made dependent on [i]the DM[/i] being bound by dictates. The noisiest part of the player culture made even more ado about that than did the designers. Yes, I understand that. Do you understand that in fact these are not [i]adding[/i] a jot or tittle except as interesting examples? That when taken as [b]prescriptive[/b] they are restrictive? What you celebrate is simply the accumulation of rules -- and that is okay. You can have a whole pile of delightful restrictions without needing to impose them on [b]everyone[/b]! It is necessary only that they should be [i]available[/i] to anyone who [i]wants[/i] to play that way. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How Complex Should D&D Be?
Top
