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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5028361" data-attributes="member: 4937">It's so one sided that it clearly indicates to me that there is quite a bit of self-delusion going on here.  If people really wanted a 'rules light' system, then we'd all be playing True20 or something even more simple.   Quite obviously, 80% of us, weren't and aren't.  Since True20 was a small niche market, I think its clear that in fact there wasn't overwhelming demand for a simplier product.  In fact, I can't really think of a 'Rules Light' system that was ever anything but a niche market.  The history of RPGs is dominated by various 'rules heavy' approaches.The answers the poll is getting are just typical human nature.  If you word the poll as:"Do you want the game more complicated?"You are going to get overwhelming response of, "No."But if you word the poll as:"Do you want the game to have fewer choices?" or "Do you want the game to rely more heavily on DM fiat?"You are still going to get a majority 'No', even though the two positions are mutually exclusive.  You can't have both more versimilitude or more choices, and also have simplier rules and less DM fiat.  Modeling the world is messy and complicated.  Giving people the ability to do anything they'd want to do is messy and complicated.  At some point you can't really do either without complexity.And if you actually starting taking away subsystems, you'll get strong backlash against it because a plurality will say 'that wasn't the complexity I thought you meant'.A good example of juggling complexity is M&M.  M&M's particular take on this is to make character creation require a PhD or a spreadsheet (or both), but to make the game resolution mechanics themselves simple in the vast majority of situations.  This fits what M&M is trying to achieve - 'play any kind of superhero you want' and 'you only need versimilitude with comic book realism'.  M&M could be made even simplier, but it would be at the cost of acheiving one of those goals.</blockquote>

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