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Message: <blockquote data-quote="redrover" data-source="post: 4369647" data-attributes="member: 70799">Exciting post!     I took a look at the class history, to see how the druid has changed over time. While 4e is a new animal, just trying to convert 3.5 spells will IMO not fully exploit either the traditional treatments of the class or all the new tools and approaches we have to play with.     A SHORT HISTORY  Druids first appearance as a class in a published supplement in Eldritch Wizardry for OD&D, 1976. (A monster version appeared previously in the Greyhawk supplement, also in 1976).      In the 1e AD&D PH, the class came into its own. That version may be the best way to see the druid in its original configuration.      2e AD&D smushed the druid and cleric together, as magic schools/spheres were introduced. The prior design practice of setting the same spell at different levels for different classes disappeared, not to re-emerge until 3e.     There was an old Polyhedron article (in the #20s?) that suggested reorganizing 2e spell spheres to reassert some of the original druid class concepts. A fair number of the suggestions were picked up in the 2e Player’s Option: Spells & Magic book.      D&D 3.0/3.5 reorganized the class, introducing animal companions, with the consequent slowing of play. Varying spell level according to class returned.     For 4e, in spite of the popularity of shapechanging, I expect the spell treatment to remain an important pillar of the class.     That said, to the list!     CANTRIPS   Know Direction: As long as this remains confined to indicating the direction “North”, it should be OK. This has mostly story value, is convenient for players, and has little tactical effect, which is fine for a cantrip.     Light: This might be a misfire. The original druid didn’t have a light spell (they got it when the “big squash” of 2e AD&D jumbled the druid and cleric spell lists).       Over time, I’ve grown rather fond of an old Ed Greenwood spell in which druid light was a faerie-fire-like effect – instead of the cleric’s standard dark-banishing light, the fey version was softer, dimmer – more like a will’o wisp or “witch light.”  I think I would prefer a “witchlight” cantrip for the druid in 4e.      Idea, Witchlight: Cantrip. Range 10, light effect in target and adjacent squares, enables low-light vision within 20 (or 40?) squares. Minor action to sustain with option to move target square up to 6 squares in each of the druid’s turns.     (In support, there should be a druid-only feat that gives low-light vision {Witchsight, Eldritch Sight, etc.} This enables Human and Halfling druids to fully utilize this spell. Most animal allies will have low-light vision as well).     (While a 40-square area may seem excessive, the practical result is that it will cover the whole playing area often enough that nobody has to waste time figuring out where the boundaries are.)     (Or someone can ask WotC: “If I have a zone of total darkness, how many squares apart can I put torches to change the lowest light level in the zone to low-light vision?” – Boundary conditions are so much fun.)     Create Water: I would discourage this one. Even though this was available to a 3rd level druid in the class’s first incarnation, to my mind, there has always been a thematic disconnect. Creation of water has its roots in Judeo-Christian miracles (Moses/Exodus).      The ability to find existing water is a better fit for the druid who is, after all, a priest of nature, not a fireplug. Instead I would turn to other potential cantrips.        (To the suggestion that a druid needs to counter forest fires, I would point out that the original spell only provided drinking water, and that putting fires out might be better handled by allowing the fire-producing abilities to be reversed as a snuffing function – this also from the EW supplement.)      Detections:    Animals,  Curses/possession (ie: you can tell when a creature is cursed, dominated, or controlled),      Enemies/intruders (especially undead and abberations),   Evil (more of an omens/augury thing),   Fey creatures,  Magic,  Magical beasts,   Plants (such as those edible, or with healing or magical properties),  Poisons (natural: to determine if a creature has been poisoned or if a creature is poisonous),   Traps (natural only: pits, snares, triplines, etc),   Water, and  Weather prediction.     Some of these might instead be configured as class features. The detect evil and detect enemies functions might be combined as detect the unnatural or Sense the Unnatural as a class feature or ritual.     Idea, Animal Sounds: Effectively ghost sounds, but restricted to animal noises: bird calls, roars, grunts, bellows, cricket chirps, and so on. Maybe expand to “forest noises” to include rustling, cracking branches, etc.      Speak with Animals: I would not configure this as a spell at all, but as a class feature. I would keep it at the level of basic needs, desires, and emotions (come, go, wait, calm, flee, attack, guard, lead, find, fetch, carry, warn). Maybe Will vs. Fortitude if the animal is larger than a certain threshold, say Heroic/Tiny, Paragon/Small, Epic/Medium. Add one size if non-predator, or three sizes if domesticated.(Domesticated size bonus allows, say, an 8th level druid to communicate with a horse, which is a Large animal, without a failure check.)  RITUALS  Auguries: Reflecting pool and commune w/nature should be considered on the campaign level, even though 4e has gone pretty much tactical.    Concealment: How about an area ward that misdirects outsiders so they can’t find a hidden sanctuary? (For example, compasses/lodestones would subtly shift to guide the outsiders around the area, senses of direction would be manipulated, scrying misdirected, etc.)    Fog also might be used for other purposes, for example, the fog-summoning scenes in the movie Excalibur. For inspiration, fog also played a pivotal role the old movie The Vikings (‘58), though the film had no druids or magic effects as such.    Consecration: Turning a natural grove, fairy circle, stone circle, etc. into a center of natural power (or ley line connection?), etc. to tap the power of the Land.     The Fey: The druid might be able to access certain feats/powers through ritual pacts with fey powers-that-be. Candidates: witchsight/see invisible, summonings (non-combat or combat), pass without trace, faultless tracking, sigils/symbols with various effects, resistance to magical or undead paralysis effects, minor charms and trinkets, luck, etc.    Healing: If the druid’s tactical healing powers are more restricted than the cleric’s, then whatever greater healing powers they have could be configured as rituals. See the healing scene in the original Conan movie for inspiration.     Temporary Sanctuary: In particular, the ability to create a safer “base camp” in wild territory, hedging out dangerous animal encounters, evil sendings such a psychic attacks and, of course, undead creatures.     Unweaving: The druid archetype should have some sort of magic-dispelling power. The traditional fixes included functions to counter magic, curses, possession, and might be extended to psychic effects such as mind blocks and compulsions. Perhaps a ritual would be a thematic way to go with this. Maybe a general “fix it” ritual with effectiveness based on Tiers.     ENTANGLE  The suggestions here seem good. My contribution is to support burst radius by Tier: Heroic = 0 (target square only) Paragon = 1 sq rad, Epic = 2 sq rad, and maybe ranges 10/15/20. I like the idea of sustaining with a minor action each round. Perhaps burning a healing surge to make an entangle area permanent for the encounter might be fun. I would favor a Strength vs. Will check to get out of an affected square. Very high strength monsters won’t be stopped by this, though the entangle area should be treated as rough ground in any event.     POTENTIAL POWERS  Most of these are OK, so I’ll deal with a few I have comments on and point out some possible expansion areas.     Poison: Poison as an attack power should, IMO, be restricted to assassins, warlocks, and other classes that have a distinctly evil bent. Personally, I have always employed poison use as a litmus test for evil alignment. The traditions and literature outside gaming are fairly consistent in treating poison use as an evil and heinous act, from the politics of the Borgias to the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet. In the more draconian legal codes of the medieval period, treason gets you killed, poison gets you burned. I will not now rant against the moral relativists who opine that poison is just a tool and neutrals should have access to it, but I’m sure thinking it. In earlier editions, poison use was just bad for game play, since it was a cheap way to trivialize combat challenges. Haven’t looked enough at it in 4e to form an opinion yet. However, I think it is a poor fit thematically for the druid class.     I do think that druids should be able to counter poisons.     Healing Word: I would not give the druid healing powers stronger than a Warlord (in particular, this means not giving them Healing Lore). A 2nd level utility heal is fine.     Tree Shape: A sentimental favorite of mine – seen it used very effectively by experienced players. A 4e configuration might be tied to a successful Stealth check, and would remove the druid from the encounter in a classic “bugout”. Under good conditions (cast in a forest) the chance of detection should be very small against good 5th-level Heroic Perception (say DC 30-35), assuming the power is at least Paragon Tier. Tricky design problem – Perception may get too good too fast, but I can also see this power fading out and being replaced by plant transport abilities between Paragon and Epic. In short, the suggestion is: very good against Heroes, chancy against Paragons, and highly risky against Epics.     THE GAPS  I would try to keep or expand abilities that would make the Druid a better team player. Perhaps revisit the concept of the druid as avenger of nature would reduce the incidence of the: “You can’t slay this animal for the experience because I’m its protector” scene that has played out countless times over the years.     Animal Interaction: I consider the animal summonings fairly core, would pencil in a placeholder, and see what the summoning threads turn up. Maybe have a Paragon path Packmaster (defender hybrid), who would be shapeshifter who leads a pack of animals (brutes or skirmishers).      The current (thin) field of defined animal monsters (from MM p284):  1 Giant Rat (minion, so spell should summon 4)  1 Dire Rat  2 Grey Wolf  2 Hyena  2 Rat Swarm  3 – (maybe work out a wolf pack)  4 Fey Panther  5 Dire Wolf  6 Cave Bear  6 Dire Boar  …  11 Dire Bear  14 Roc     Obvious candidates include: Raven (scout minion), Hawk/Eagle, Crow Swarm, Wolf Pack, Black/Brown Bear. Others: Giant Badger, Giant Eagle, Ferret (minion, thieving), Wild Boar, Wild Bull/Giant Elk.     The issue of aquatic animal summoning and “Nature’s Ally” special types might also be dealt with.     Hold Animal: A related power type is the ability to quickly neutralize an otherwise hostile animal encounter (perhaps not only preventing an attack, but shuffling the animal off-stage so the party can get on with the adventure). Subtypes include:     Turning animals with divine druid power, analogous to turning undead, has been tried several times in the past, but would be a challenge to translate into 4e. Maybe configure as a fear burst. Effects on mounted opponents must be defined as well.     Invisibility to Animals allows the party to pass by without triggering an attack. This doesn’t give as good game play, since ducking a challenge is far less satisfying than overcoming one. Perhaps better as a ritual and available for story purposes.     These three might be generally irrelevant in 4e, as relatively few hostile animal encounters are likely to seriously threaten a party of significant level.     Animal mounts: One type of support a druid could supply is animal mounts for the party. This is more of a strategic and story-advancing ability than anything tactical, so maybe file this in the Ritual column. Cover land, sea, and air transport. Define the number of mounts provided as “sufficient for a small party” and let the DM adjudicate any player abuses.     Speaking with animals is two-edged; it can be a good way to get quick intelligence, but I’ve too often seen it slip into abuse when the druid player is more concerned with chatting up the locals than getting on with the adventure. (See notes above.)    Befriending animals, in my experience, only slows the game and frustrates the other players. Recommend not going there in 4e.    The Fey: Higher level powers that let the druid access fey creatures and certain magical beasts such as unicorns seem highly thematic to me. Rather than augmenting the party in combat, perhaps it would be more fun to configure this as a favor exchange – for example, a unicorn might neutralize all poison effects and then depart. This approach in turn may generate adventure hooks for the party when the fey ask for the favor’s return.     Travel: In particular, avoiding delays and hazards. One problem with earlier configurations was that the druid could rarely empower the party with his abilities, so these spells tended to isolate the druid rather than integrate with the party. I seem to recall a few spells in the old 2e AD&D Priest Spellbook Compendiums that addressed this, but with the party integration of 4e, the field is fertile for more teamwork development. I am intrigued by the possibility of a Leader-Druid being able to allow party members to move through certain types of rough ground at normal speed. Pass without trace is core here.     I think a freedom of movement power should be considered at Paragon, and dimensional anchor at Epic.     Curses/Hexes: The original druid actually had powers like feeblemind, finger of death, and confusion, so druid-based hexing has precedents from the earliest versions. For the druid, these have traditionally been high level effects. Even so, I could see a Heroic ranged daze attack (flare) in the style of the damaging produce flame spell attack.    Baneful Polymorph: This might be workable if you limit it to specific results based on size and environment:   [code][B]Opponent[/B]       [B]Ground       Air             Aquatic[/B]  Small            Mouse        Wren        Minnow              Medium         Chicken      Pigeon      Clownfish  Large            Sheep        Duck        Codfish  Huge             Cow          Goose       Penguin  Gargantuan    n/a            n/a          n/a[/code](The default animals were picked so we can laugh at the victims.)(Anyone remember Killer Penguins?)  Finger of Death: Another spell that has been in the druid’s bag’o tricks forever. It might be configured as an Epic Tier hex.      Early editions presented this as a last resort desperation move. To reflect that, we can require the druid be bloodied and have three personal healing surges left. The effect is save or die (!!).Using the power burns all remaining personal healing surges for the day. Possibly make the druid save vs. unconsciousness as well (possibly at a -5 penalty).    The idea is that the player is putting all his chips into the pot when he does this. Not for the squeamish.      (It does introduce the question of whether it’s fair to give one class this capability, and not others. So maybe making this just another conventional power is the way to go, after all.)    Firebugs: A magical way to control all those fire effects is needed. After those comments on create water, am I inconsistent? Well, no – you can’t drink a quench spell. Might be fun to have a small summoned fire elemental going around sucking natural flames into himself, thus snuffing the local fires.    Party Support Powers:      Obscuring mist/fog was a favorite defensive ploy, although the lowest level spells in my games never seemed to have enough area to be effective outside dungeon confines.      Wind: I would like to see some wind effect that can target enemy strikers and mess up their shots. Or possibly create significant missile-free zones on the map.     Plant Growth: Creates a (medium) (3x3 ?) zone of rough ground (costs 2 squares to enter) that blocks line of sight and fire. Works only on natural ground. (And not, for example, on flagstones)  Animate Plants: As plant growth, but deals damage to opponents in the zone.     Rock to Mud:  Another (large) (6x6 ?) zone of rough ground, usable on any land, but does not block line of sight or fire. It should be “stickier” than plant growth (+2 squares to enter?), but if you can’t otherwise enter, a successful save always gets you one square. Of course, levitation powers let you walk on the surface as if it was open ground. One old trick is to magic it, mire the enemy in it, then dispel it. So that case needs to be dealt with.     Thorn Wall: If anything, even more thematic than wall of fire.  This should block movement and melee, but not missile fire (cf abatis, look it up). Although in the past, this has been pegged higher than wall of fire, maybe this should be revisited – looks to me like the latter has more advantages.     Animal Shapes: This was a cool infiltration spell, but more of a story device than a tactical aid. Maybe file it under Rituals?        TACTICAL STUFF    Faerie Fire: I do not believe radiant energy is a good match for the druid. Radiant energy is a 4e equivalent to the old Positive (life) energy that opposes and destroys Negative (death) energy. The druid has traditionally been neutrally-aspected toward these energies.     The ff spell’s traditional function dovetails nicely, however, with a Marking power. As a Leader power, it’s like a target acquisition bonus for other party members.  Idea, Gnats: Ranged power, one target (or maybe the 0-1-2 area by Tier). Opponent takes small damage from it each turn (2/6/10?) unless he burns his standard action defending against it (*shoo!*). The druid must use a minor action to sustain it.    Idea, Moonlight Blade: Somewhat like flame blade. The affected weapon is considered silvered. This is just a little something to keep the lycans under control. Maybe let the druid pass the effect on to an ally’s weapon.     (Actually, something I dislike in the new edition is many monsters that used to require special weapons to hit are now configured as regenerators and the baneful material--silver for lycanthropes--only shuts down regen for a one round against all attacks when it hits. So theoretically, if only one person has a silver weapon to suppress the regen, a bunch of people without silver weapons can beat up the lycan handily. No resistance to normal damage? No special vulnerability to silver? No stipulation the killing blow has to be made by the special weapon? Seems...odd. Maybe it needs a thread?)     Done for now. Ta-ta!</blockquote>

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