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<blockquote data-quote="Barastrondo" data-source="post: 5495423" data-attributes="member: 3820">Is it really a binary question? I don't think it is. I think it's rooted right in people's expectations of what &quot;simulate what occurs in the game universe&quot; are. You can have totally reasonable and completely conflicting expectations. For instance, you can expect that when a PC tries to cut a chandelier down onto a bunch of the King's Guard, that the logical result would be that it's highly likely to work because the game rules are simulating swashbuckler-style high action media. But you can also expect that it shouldn't work because the tensile strength of the metal chain holding the chandelier in place shouldn't be easily severed by a sword blow, because the game is simulating a less fantastic sort of reality.So if a game allows you to cut that chain easily, the question of &quot;does the game create the appropriate result?&quot; can be answered both yes and no. It's the nature of what you want simulated that determines the response. And I really think there is no way to get an objective result outside of that context.Think of it as this way: When the question comes up why X is a poor simulation of Y, &quot;the game doesn't do simulation&quot; is actually not a very good answer. &quot;The game doesn't simulate Y&quot; is a far better one. And when the comment is made that &quot;the game has simulation in spades,&quot; that doesn't necessarily mean &quot;the game simulates all kinds of things, including Y.&quot; Disagreements generally tend to boil up because people have variable levels of Y-sensitivity. People will say &quot;Yeah, it doesn't do Y&quot; in that kind of dismissive tone that indicates Y isn't a make-or-break issue. And for other people, it is a make-or-break. But usually Y is only just one part of the picture.That's a fair reading, I'd say. It falls squarely into the classic mold of arbitration of results from either skill checks, skill challenges, or just plain roleplay, depending on what each group's preferred mix is. Simulation (or probably more accurately, emulation) is a function of the group and what they're interested in.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Barastrondo, post: 5495423, member: 3820"] Is it really a binary question? I don't think it is. I think it's rooted right in people's expectations of what "simulate what occurs in the game universe" are. You can have totally reasonable and completely conflicting expectations. For instance, you can expect that when a PC tries to cut a chandelier down onto a bunch of the King's Guard, that the logical result would be that it's highly likely to work because the game rules are simulating swashbuckler-style high action media. But you can also expect that it shouldn't work because the tensile strength of the metal chain holding the chandelier in place shouldn't be easily severed by a sword blow, because the game is simulating a less fantastic sort of reality. So if a game allows you to cut that chain easily, the question of "does the game create the appropriate result?" can be answered both yes and no. It's the nature of what you want simulated that determines the response. And I really think there is no way to get an objective result outside of that context. Think of it as this way: When the question comes up why X is a poor simulation of Y, "the game doesn't do simulation" is actually not a very good answer. "The game doesn't simulate Y" is a far better one. And when the comment is made that "the game has simulation in spades," that doesn't necessarily mean "the game simulates all kinds of things, including Y." Disagreements generally tend to boil up because people have variable levels of Y-sensitivity. People will say "Yeah, it doesn't do Y" in that kind of dismissive tone that indicates Y isn't a make-or-break issue. And for other people, it is a make-or-break. But usually Y is only just one part of the picture. That's a fair reading, I'd say. It falls squarely into the classic mold of arbitration of results from either skill checks, skill challenges, or just plain roleplay, depending on what each group's preferred mix is. Simulation (or probably more accurately, emulation) is a function of the group and what they're interested in. [/QUOTE]

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