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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eriktheguy" data-source="post: 5498379" data-attributes="member: 83662">I want to add to this argument. In the case of saying "yes but..." when a character tries to do something stupid. Many DMs are content to allow the foolish hero to try something very stupid and allow them to suffer grievous consequences. I actually try to avoid this and warn the players out of game when they try something very stupid. Many DMs think this breaks the reality of the game world and is terrible meta-gaming. I strongly disagree. Why?<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The scenario the player imagines and the scenario you describe are different, no matter how many adjectives you use. Maybe the player imagines the 'shallow pool' you described as being deep enough to soften a 30' fall when in fact it is not. Maybe they picture those three 'thugs' you described are homeless gang members when in fact they are well-armed 'thuggish' warriors.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">It's hard to get a feel for what something is like without being there. A 20 foot drop off looks and feels a lot different when you are really there. Your character does not get that human 'twinge' that you would get standing at the top of a cliff. As a player you might not even know what '20 feet' means when it is abstracted as a number. It's about the third floor of an apartment building.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">It's even harder to get a feel for what your character can do. Without understanding the system well, you may not know that a 30' fall is almost certain to knock you prone. If you are used to 3e you might think you can take on four orcs, when in reality you cannot. If you are new to RPGs, you don't know that you can't take on a mind flayer at level 3 ("It looked as weak as a human!").</li> </ol>So I often warn my players when they are about to do something stupid. Or at least when they are about to do something their characters would have known was stupid. This helps avoid many arguments with the players of dead characters after the session."But you didn't say the lava was deep, and I figured the water walking boots would get me across. You didn't say the lava would destroy my boots! I've fought fire monsters before and never had to worry!"So this is the "Yes, if you really want to, but here's why you should say no" scenario.EDIT: There's this great blurb on page 171 of Dungeon Master's Guide 2 (an amazing read by the way) called "Nudging". I strongly urge you to look it up. I won't reproduce it here for obvious reasons. It is a word from the author Robin Laws. He basically says that when your PCs are making plans or decisions you don't have to remain silent. You can drop helpful information, tell them what might work or might not, or otherwise 'nudge' them in the right directions. He uses the example of players making major party decisions, but this can apply to round-to-round decisions made by individuals as well. I think it's a novice mistake that some expert DMs make, refusing to speak directly to the players because they see it as meta-game. In reality you need to speak to them directly sometimes because of the three reasons above.</blockquote>

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