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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5502249" data-attributes="member: 54877">I agree something like that should not be a core rule.&nbsp; Among other things, it complicates the base design in ways that might need different house rules at different tables.&nbsp; One of the things that makes 4E skills easy to house rules is that they didn't try to guess what corner cases would exist at each table.&nbsp; They give you a simple framework, and you can either run with it, use some fiat as necessary, or house rule the things that bug you enough.&nbsp; About the only way that the 4E design really screws up that part of the design is making some classes with only 3 trained skills.&nbsp;By definition, all &quot;simulation&quot; rules can be gamed, absent DM oversight.&nbsp; If you put in a rule to simulated the game worlds' reality, then you put in a lever with which the players can move things.&nbsp; Accordingly, when a table decides to use a particular house rule to make 4E more sim, they are taking on the obligation to police the effects.&nbsp; &nbsp;My point was really only that for people who could accept the spirit of 4E, it is not difficult to identify niche areas that rub you wrong and tweak to fix them.&nbsp; 4E makes this really easy.&nbsp; Contrawise, people who like sim for sim's sake, and try to change it/bend it to fit that spirit, are doomed to be frustrated. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5502249, member: 54877"] I agree something like that should not be a core rule. Among other things, it complicates the base design in ways that might need different house rules at different tables. One of the things that makes 4E skills easy to house rules is that they didn't try to guess what corner cases would exist at each table. They give you a simple framework, and you can either run with it, use some fiat as necessary, or house rule the things that bug you enough. About the only way that the 4E design really screws up that part of the design is making some classes with only 3 trained skills. By definition, all "simulation" rules can be gamed, absent DM oversight. If you put in a rule to simulated the game worlds' reality, then you put in a lever with which the players can move things. Accordingly, when a table decides to use a particular house rule to make 4E more sim, they are taking on the obligation to police the effects. My point was really only that for people who could accept the spirit of 4E, it is not difficult to identify niche areas that rub you wrong and tweak to fix them. 4E makes this really easy. Contrawise, people who like sim for sim's sake, and try to change it/bend it to fit that spirit, are doomed to be frustrated. :) [/QUOTE]

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