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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eriktheguy" data-source="post: 5504164" data-attributes="member: 83662">Well we weren't talking about balance, we were talking about simulation. A level 30 wizard should be better at noticing an assassin than a level 1 wizard. He should be able to do this as a consequence of his experience and without having to invest resources into it. In this respect, 4e delivers and 3.x does not.The wizard is a bad example. They had skill points to throw around in 3.x because of their Int scores. Consider instead a fighter. Over your entire career you either develop a small range of skills to the point of mediocrity, or a tiny allocation of skills to their upper levels.It actually makes no sense for a level 20 fighter to have the same endurance, spot, stealth, climb and survival skills as a level 1. This can easily happen if you have other skills you are interested in and Int as a dump stat. It also happens to clerics and maybe some other classes (it's been awhile...) This isn't very good simulation.4e's approach is "everything improves a bit as you level up, and you can expend character resources to improve some aspects even more."3e's approach is "you can expend character resources to improve some aspects of your character a bit".I think 4e makes more sense.There's a ton of non-houserule ways to do it.Skill training feats might seem ugly to an optimizer, but there are cross class feats that grant you skill training packaged with a nifty class feature. Skill powers and some feats allow you to improve specific aspects of your skills. Moreover you can do this without causing other skills in your move pool to stagnate (like they would in 3e).Check out the following:Duelist's Panache (feat) - Adds Cha to all acrobatics and athletics checks. Not only does it allow you to increase skill checks by a substantial amount, but it comes with a juicy flavor. This is actually a viable option; these skills come up in combat a lot and the bonus is large and scaling.Hop up (skill power) - Once per encounter knocking you prone allows you to shift 1 and stand up. A way to develop your acrobatics skill, and far more interesting than allocating another skill point into it.Wasteland Wanderer - +2 to nature, perception, initiative. It's not bad, not even for an optimizer, and something you could apply after an adventure in the wild.Sneak of Shadows (rogue multi-class feat) - Training in thievery and use sneak attack once/encounter. Someone upthread used an example of a fighter who did some lockpicking for awhile in one adventure. In 4e you might represent this facet of your development using this feat.Magpie Filch (rogue power) - Snatch an item from a target you hit with a melee attack, no check required. One way to improve the thieving aspect of your character without having to change the number next to 'thievery' on your character sheet.</blockquote>

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