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How did 4e take simulation away from D&D?
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5504220" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>It's interesting to note how people think feats or skill powers are a sparse resource.</p><p></p><p>In the 2E days, feats were REALLY scarce. They didn't exist.</p><p></p><p>In 3E, PCs going to the end of Epic tended to have a max of 11 or 12 of them (except for a few classes).</p><p></p><p>Now, all PCs get 18 or 19 of them if played to level 30 and it's still not enough. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Also, the change in the skill challenge levels happened about week 4 after 4E came out. It's hardly a new thing.</p><p></p><p>+9 at level 1 (skill training + 18 stat) vs. DC 15 hard is 75% chance.</p><p></p><p>+27 or +28 at level 28 (skill training + 26 or 28 stat + 14 half level) vs. DC 33 hard is 75% or 80% chance.</p><p></p><p>Even with a starting stat of 12 and never boosting the stat at all, a trained PC can do a hard DC 33 at level 28 45% of the time. A low stat, no feats, no items, no stat boosts and all it requires is training at level one (or any level) to have a decent chance of success on a HARD task at level 28.</p><p></p><p>With nothing else added in.</p><p></p><p>I'm not seeing a problem with it being too hard, I see a problem with it being too easy. Medium difficulty tasks are 100% trained and even PCs that are untrained can easily accomplish them.</p><p></p><p>WotC dropped the DC by 10 at low level and 5 at high level.</p><p></p><p>It should be DC 10 15 20 at level 1-3 and the original 30 34 38 at level 28-30.</p><p></p><p></p><p>DC 5 is pretty much a joke, even for an untrained PC.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The skill <strong>challenge</strong> system is nothing of the sort. It's an exercise in rolling the dice where if the players pick trained skills (or Aid Another), they are pretty much a shoe in to win every skill challenge.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5504220, member: 2011"] It's interesting to note how people think feats or skill powers are a sparse resource. In the 2E days, feats were REALLY scarce. They didn't exist. In 3E, PCs going to the end of Epic tended to have a max of 11 or 12 of them (except for a few classes). Now, all PCs get 18 or 19 of them if played to level 30 and it's still not enough. :lol: Also, the change in the skill challenge levels happened about week 4 after 4E came out. It's hardly a new thing. +9 at level 1 (skill training + 18 stat) vs. DC 15 hard is 75% chance. +27 or +28 at level 28 (skill training + 26 or 28 stat + 14 half level) vs. DC 33 hard is 75% or 80% chance. Even with a starting stat of 12 and never boosting the stat at all, a trained PC can do a hard DC 33 at level 28 45% of the time. A low stat, no feats, no items, no stat boosts and all it requires is training at level one (or any level) to have a decent chance of success on a HARD task at level 28. With nothing else added in. I'm not seeing a problem with it being too hard, I see a problem with it being too easy. Medium difficulty tasks are 100% trained and even PCs that are untrained can easily accomplish them. WotC dropped the DC by 10 at low level and 5 at high level. It should be DC 10 15 20 at level 1-3 and the original 30 34 38 at level 28-30. DC 5 is pretty much a joke, even for an untrained PC. The skill [b]challenge[/b] system is nothing of the sort. It's an exercise in rolling the dice where if the players pick trained skills (or Aid Another), they are pretty much a shoe in to win every skill challenge. [/QUOTE]
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