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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5510727" data-attributes="member: 78116">Oh I know, but what we found with 3.5 (when I was DMing) and what I saw when playing was just how useless the non-casters were. When we were playing Pathfinder to check it out and see if they had "fixed" things we had run out of spells (mostly). By we I meant the "Druid, Cleric and Wizard" of the party (I was the Wizard). The fighter and rogue were what was left and it was something like level 12 or 13. Now we had rolled every encounter before that trivially during the day and during the rest, the DM ambushed us.Now at this point you'd say "Well the fighter/rogue have been pretty pointless, time to glow sunshine!" but they got annihilated first - monsters it turns out have magic too! We held off the enemies almost until one just just made a save that should have got rid of it. I ended up dying and then everyone else except the druid did - who somehow managed to kill the last creatures. So the druid had 4 dead companions and 3 HP. I will admit it was an awesome encounter, but it was somewhat pointless given we lost 2 characters practically instantly and then 3 characters - almost entirely depleted ran a combat that one-sided (or should have been) almost to a victory with no further losses.Needless to say the player of the Fighter/Rogue who missed literally an hour worth of combat (much of it us carefully debating what we did with our limited resources) just about weren't impressed. At the time I remembered thinking "I am glad that I am not playing this anymore", because it really did remind me of exactly what happens in 3.x. You keep going until the spellcasters run out of spells and then you rest - because you're not getting anywhere without magic. Of course the entire thing was my fault in the first place. I could have simply used rope trick (IIRC) and none of it would have been relevant as we wouldn't have been ambushed to begin with. But mea culpa.Edit: It may seem more appropriate for magic to be far superior to your standard fighter or similar, but it doesn't make the game fun in the least when you need to rely on them - only to suddenly find out they can't handle anywhere near the challenge you can. That by definition is *imbalanced*.</blockquote>

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