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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5510823" data-attributes="member: 78116">How on earth do you think we managed to live through it? Throwing rocks? ...actually that would have been awesome if that was possible...But in the end the REAL mistake was not simply using rope trick. You seem to have missed the point in all this that the two characters - who shouldn't have been anywhere disadvantaged by not having rested - got wiped out first and had no chance surviving without the spellcasters.That's the point.We typically never run any 3.X game (including Pathfinder) from level 1 - Pathfinder doesn't change that either incidentally. Usually level 5 to 13. That's not a lot of the game actually. In 4E I tend to run my games from level 1... to hmm about level 30 <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Just so you know <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I agree and that's precisely how Pathfinder felt to me when we played it. It did remove some warts, but then it just replaced them with new and sometimes equally obnoxious warts in some cases.Yeah and this is one of the things that gets very funky when you want to run a "mortal" epic tier in 4E. Ultimately it is something you have to accept because the alternative was an increasing PC magic item economy, that was very difficult to stop once "manufacturing" style enchanting got under way. It also limits the amount if items that PCs could have. Personally my goals in my DS and Eberron games in epic are to give PCs things of high value - that will prove useful. Land holdings, strongholds, places to sneak off to rest and other things like that. I'm a little un-enthused now with handing out tons of gold, especially with the changes to magic item rarity and distribution.I would like a better economy and one that felt less artificial, but only if it isn't going to be worse or a nightmare to stop PCs gaining exponential wealth after a period.</blockquote>

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