Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
How did 4e take simulation away from D&D?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5521886" data-attributes="member: 51942"><p>What you're saying makes sense, but I think the link is far weaker than you're presenting it: weak enough to permit levelling and the default fantasy setting without altogether much trouble.</p><p></p><p>Firstly, although at some level it's true that powerful people must work "within" the system, given how large that system has become, that's an almost meaningless proposition. Somebody with 1000 times the resources of another has that "money" by virtue of social convention, but it's very hard to take away - and having those resources means he'll win many supposedly fair fights (just look at how court cases go).</p><p></p><p>One could also make the argument that even in today's society, most nefarious powerful people get away with it - and that doesn't blow up society itself. If a company skimps on safety, they might hurt many,many innocents, but unless clear <em>personal</em> blame can be shown, that just means some faceless company gets a bill, and the rich and powerful continue on their ways.</p><p></p><p>And, just like in D&D, there's almost always someone more powerful. Even the rich and powerful can't get away with everything, because others can still bring them down - particularly if they're united. Even the superrich may be jailed (even though they've got better chances) - and in D&D you might consider the deities and demigods or whatever other power - there's tons in lore - that may strike down others seemingly arbitrarily.</p><p></p><p>So long as your fantasy setting involves mostly harmless populace and just few rare powerful individuals, I think you can get away with levelling just fine - no it's not the most <em>likely</em> set up, but you <em>can</em> keep it reasonable and consistent. Those running large nations will need to benefit in some way from keeping the peace - but then that's easily imagined. And of course, D&D societies seem much smaller; which would be consistent with the idea that levelling isn't ideal for huge spread out societies.</p><p></p><p>And note that random acts of violence aren't really all that attractive to most. If there's any kind of society and ethics going on, you're risking at best vigilante justice - and even high levelled PC's aren't immune to "accidents". And you might disturb something or someone <em>with</em> power - so why take the risk unless there's some gain? And given the way magic items work, there's no real gain unless you've got a massive network of support; high level magic is simply too hard to achieve. And if having a massive network helps; it'll need to be protected by those powerful, with whom you'd rather not mess - even if usually you'd get away with it.</p><p></p><p>So while levelling and rural medieval society are somewhat at odds, I don't think they're mutually exclusive - at least, certainly not so flagrantly that you can't design a framework in which apparent contradictions can be explained away. And since we're in a designed fantasy world, that suffices.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eamon, post: 5521886, member: 51942"] What you're saying makes sense, but I think the link is far weaker than you're presenting it: weak enough to permit levelling and the default fantasy setting without altogether much trouble. Firstly, although at some level it's true that powerful people must work "within" the system, given how large that system has become, that's an almost meaningless proposition. Somebody with 1000 times the resources of another has that "money" by virtue of social convention, but it's very hard to take away - and having those resources means he'll win many supposedly fair fights (just look at how court cases go). One could also make the argument that even in today's society, most nefarious powerful people get away with it - and that doesn't blow up society itself. If a company skimps on safety, they might hurt many,many innocents, but unless clear [I]personal[/I] blame can be shown, that just means some faceless company gets a bill, and the rich and powerful continue on their ways. And, just like in D&D, there's almost always someone more powerful. Even the rich and powerful can't get away with everything, because others can still bring them down - particularly if they're united. Even the superrich may be jailed (even though they've got better chances) - and in D&D you might consider the deities and demigods or whatever other power - there's tons in lore - that may strike down others seemingly arbitrarily. So long as your fantasy setting involves mostly harmless populace and just few rare powerful individuals, I think you can get away with levelling just fine - no it's not the most [I]likely[/I] set up, but you [I]can[/I] keep it reasonable and consistent. Those running large nations will need to benefit in some way from keeping the peace - but then that's easily imagined. And of course, D&D societies seem much smaller; which would be consistent with the idea that levelling isn't ideal for huge spread out societies. And note that random acts of violence aren't really all that attractive to most. If there's any kind of society and ethics going on, you're risking at best vigilante justice - and even high levelled PC's aren't immune to "accidents". And you might disturb something or someone [I]with[/I] power - so why take the risk unless there's some gain? And given the way magic items work, there's no real gain unless you've got a massive network of support; high level magic is simply too hard to achieve. And if having a massive network helps; it'll need to be protected by those powerful, with whom you'd rather not mess - even if usually you'd get away with it. So while levelling and rural medieval society are somewhat at odds, I don't think they're mutually exclusive - at least, certainly not so flagrantly that you can't design a framework in which apparent contradictions can be explained away. And since we're in a designed fantasy world, that suffices. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
How did 4e take simulation away from D&D?
Top