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How Did I Become a Grognard?
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7563886" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>I played 4e with out a board...but I played 3.5 WITH a grid.</p><p></p><p>If you think 4e required a board...you should read the rules to 3.5, they were even MORE explicit about defining movement via a grid and miniatures came with all their beginning sets (unlike 4e which just came with pogs...).</p><p></p><p>As for miniature wargaming...as one of those who probably was considered a grog even back then as I did wargaming...there were a LOT of wargamers that did NOT play Warhammer but used miniatures.</p><p></p><p>The first miniature wargaming that wasn't really military based and got big was actually published in 1913 in a book by H.G. Wells called <em>Little Wars</em>. So, many decades of wargaming that were NOT Warhammer had already come and that hobby was ALIVE AND WELL when D&D was being created and even after (and there are probably a lot less today, but at least a couple thousand that play miniature wargaming that is NOT Warhammer Fantasy or 40K).</p><p></p><p>Napoleonics were also relatively famous and popular. WWII miniature gaming got bigger...probably after D&D came out, but by the 80s was also probably a thing. </p><p></p><p>They MAY NOT have been popular miniature wargaming among those who were playing the big game of AD&D during the 80s much, and that may be where your perception that only Warhammer miniatures was being played. </p><p></p><p>Of course, in regards to grids and hexes...Grids and hexes were being used for wargames since at least 1958 with the publication of Gettysburg. Other wargames advanced this design and wargaming on a map/board/grid was particularly popular in the 70s and grew in popularity in the 80s. After D&D hit the big box stores you could sometimes find the Avalon Hill Wargames right besides the same spots that sported D&D.</p><p></p><p>I think many did not PLAY with miniatures for several reasons.</p><p></p><p>#1 - They were not wargamers initially. When they were introduced they didn't realize that miniatures really had anything to do with it initially. They got used to playing the game without miniatures and went on from there.</p><p></p><p>#2 - As someone mentioned above...B/X and BECMI brought in a TON of new players. These box sets did not really reference miniatures as a key feature to playing the game. They learned how to play without miniatures.</p><p></p><p>#3 - The rules didn't really stress the usage of miniatures. In many instances one might start playing a game without reading all the rules (and there are a LOT of rules) and never really got into the parts about miniatures. Thus, like the players above, never really got into playing with them. </p><p></p><p>I attribute that MANY didn't play with Miniatures from the get go, which is one reason the secondary combat rules (arneson's) gained priority over the rules that shipped in the three original booklets as the primary combat system and by the time 2 years had passed were the commonly accepted form for combat everywhere. Thus when Holmes and AD&D came out, only those rules were mentioned and the harkening back to chainmail was conveniently forgotten.</p><p></p><p>However, many DID play miniature wargames that were NOT Warhammer in the 70s and 80s...and wargaming itself has long used grids and hexes in gaming.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7563886, member: 4348"] I played 4e with out a board...but I played 3.5 WITH a grid. If you think 4e required a board...you should read the rules to 3.5, they were even MORE explicit about defining movement via a grid and miniatures came with all their beginning sets (unlike 4e which just came with pogs...). As for miniature wargaming...as one of those who probably was considered a grog even back then as I did wargaming...there were a LOT of wargamers that did NOT play Warhammer but used miniatures. The first miniature wargaming that wasn't really military based and got big was actually published in 1913 in a book by H.G. Wells called [I]Little Wars[/I]. So, many decades of wargaming that were NOT Warhammer had already come and that hobby was ALIVE AND WELL when D&D was being created and even after (and there are probably a lot less today, but at least a couple thousand that play miniature wargaming that is NOT Warhammer Fantasy or 40K). Napoleonics were also relatively famous and popular. WWII miniature gaming got bigger...probably after D&D came out, but by the 80s was also probably a thing. They MAY NOT have been popular miniature wargaming among those who were playing the big game of AD&D during the 80s much, and that may be where your perception that only Warhammer miniatures was being played. Of course, in regards to grids and hexes...Grids and hexes were being used for wargames since at least 1958 with the publication of Gettysburg. Other wargames advanced this design and wargaming on a map/board/grid was particularly popular in the 70s and grew in popularity in the 80s. After D&D hit the big box stores you could sometimes find the Avalon Hill Wargames right besides the same spots that sported D&D. I think many did not PLAY with miniatures for several reasons. #1 - They were not wargamers initially. When they were introduced they didn't realize that miniatures really had anything to do with it initially. They got used to playing the game without miniatures and went on from there. #2 - As someone mentioned above...B/X and BECMI brought in a TON of new players. These box sets did not really reference miniatures as a key feature to playing the game. They learned how to play without miniatures. #3 - The rules didn't really stress the usage of miniatures. In many instances one might start playing a game without reading all the rules (and there are a LOT of rules) and never really got into the parts about miniatures. Thus, like the players above, never really got into playing with them. I attribute that MANY didn't play with Miniatures from the get go, which is one reason the secondary combat rules (arneson's) gained priority over the rules that shipped in the three original booklets as the primary combat system and by the time 2 years had passed were the commonly accepted form for combat everywhere. Thus when Holmes and AD&D came out, only those rules were mentioned and the harkening back to chainmail was conveniently forgotten. However, many DID play miniature wargames that were NOT Warhammer in the 70s and 80s...and wargaming itself has long used grids and hexes in gaming. [/QUOTE]
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