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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 9471718" data-attributes="member: 85555">I don't think the NPC who betrays them is the problem. That can work, provided they are also meeting plenty of trustworthy people in the setting. Also if you have someone act with betrayal I think it is very important to be as fair as possible in terms of giving players chances to perceive it at various points and not just be driven by a desire for a dramatic reveal. This also depends heavily on setting and genre. I do a lot of kung fu and wuxia campaigns and the master who betrays his disciples is a pretty standard trope. Tropes being old and common, doesn't mean you shouldn't use them (in fact I think throwing away established tropes in a genre can be more of a problem). You just need to handle certain ones with care, not over do them, etc. It is like the family member in peril. If the players family only exist to serve as plot devices, of course they will hate it when their father gets abducted by the villain. But if that kind of thing is rare and balanced out with family generally being more helpful and more like real world family it can work well (i.e. they are people the players may be able to go to for information, support, nepotism, etc). I have one NPC in my setting who betrays just about everyone. The first time it was a surprise. But the players have almost grown to enjoy his shenanigans (he has almost become like Doctor Smith). And yet they still put their trust in him and don't get angry when he inevitably betrays them (and the last time they were still surprised by his betrayal because they thought they had a winning angle). That is an extreme example, but I would say these things generally work if you aren't overdoing them and so long as you do them in the right way. It just has to be balanced with all the other tropes</blockquote>

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