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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gothmog" data-source="post: 4613628" data-attributes="member: 317">You're right- I should have been more careful with my wording.  Any character can shine when roleplayed well and integrates well into the campaign/world.  However, in a strict mechanical sense, martial classes (fighter, barbarian, and to a lesser extent the paladin and ranger) really had their moment in the spotlight in combat, the system encouraged them to spend their feats towards customizing a given combat schtick, which in most cases (but not all) was dealing damage.  APAATT greataxe barbarian with cleave and great cleave anyone?The difference between a non-caster and a caster in 3e was immense in their flexibility and general usefulness.  A character gets one feat every three levels (more if you're a fighter), so even a 20th level fighter has 18 feats (the highest possible in game), and a 20th level barbarian has 7.  In comparison, a cleric/wizard/druid has a few HUNDRED ways to branch out and customize by learning/using different spells.  Its not even close- the non and semi-casting characters were second-class citizens in 3e in regards to their usefulness, customizibility, and worth, and it only got worse the higher level it got.Now I agree in theory that grappling an enemy spellcaster, or disarming an opponent, or bull rushing can be a worthwhile tactic.  In fact, I even tried to get players to do those things during combats.  However, unless the character were geared towards such a thing, those tactics were decidedly subpar and not likely to succeed.  For example, what fighter with iterative attacks would give up full attacking for a bull rush, when its more effective to just stand toe-to-toe and full attack the enemy.  Or try a disarm when it provokes an immediate opportunity attack, and if it fails the opponent can immediately try to disarm you without an AoO.  And the rules for grappling were so screwy, most people I played with said "screw it, I just attack."  Do you see what I'm getting at here?  While these actions were available, the system itself was set up to discourage such actions, and encourage the full attack slugathon.This is one of the things I think 4e did right, even if I don't agree with how they parsed out the ability to use powers according to encounter/daily powers.  The actions in a 4e combat are a lot more varied, AND you still have the option to bull rush, disarm, grab, etc- AND you're not penalized for doing so.  I've seen a LOT more varied use of tactics in 4e than I did in 3e, because the rules don't try to penalize you for trying creative stunts.</blockquote>

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