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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4621162" data-attributes="member: 40961">It did add some features though.&nbsp; Like moving your enemy by pushing or pulling them around the field of battle.&nbsp; 3e provided Bull Rush, and then quit on us- I'm personally convinced that it threw in the towel because its simulation leanings meant that combat maneuvers any more complex than that just ground to a halt in rules bloat.&nbsp; Even classic maneuvers weren't possible- a giant large enough to pick up a small house and hit the PCs with it wasn't able to pick up a cleric and throw him, because the rules for it simply did not exist.&nbsp; 4e, by deciding to just go ahead and skip all the details that 3e cared about- relative size of combatants, grapple checks, weight, etc, etc, etc, managed to actually realize an entire classic aspect of combat that is unknown in 3rd edition.&nbsp;Ok, technically its not completely unknown.&nbsp; There's a few powers in Tome of Battle that used the Trip mechanic to throw enemies.&nbsp; But generally speaking 3e shied away from plausible maneuvers that aren't easily simulated with the same degree of detail as the existing maneuvers like bull rush and disarm.&nbsp;4e did the opposite, of course, with disarm.&nbsp; Its virtually impossible to design a good disarm mechanic in gamist terms.&nbsp; So its been minimized.&nbsp; But that's how it goes between editions, I guess.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4621162, member: 40961"] It did add some features though. Like moving your enemy by pushing or pulling them around the field of battle. 3e provided Bull Rush, and then quit on us- I'm personally convinced that it threw in the towel because its simulation leanings meant that combat maneuvers any more complex than that just ground to a halt in rules bloat. Even classic maneuvers weren't possible- a giant large enough to pick up a small house and hit the PCs with it wasn't able to pick up a cleric and throw him, because the rules for it simply did not exist. 4e, by deciding to just go ahead and skip all the details that 3e cared about- relative size of combatants, grapple checks, weight, etc, etc, etc, managed to actually realize an entire classic aspect of combat that is unknown in 3rd edition. Ok, technically its not completely unknown. There's a few powers in Tome of Battle that used the Trip mechanic to throw enemies. But generally speaking 3e shied away from plausible maneuvers that aren't easily simulated with the same degree of detail as the existing maneuvers like bull rush and disarm. 4e did the opposite, of course, with disarm. Its virtually impossible to design a good disarm mechanic in gamist terms. So its been minimized. But that's how it goes between editions, I guess. [/QUOTE]

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