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How difficult should Difficulty be?
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8704741" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>Ok, I had a bunch more stuff, but realized it was just fluff at this point so deleted it. But not to worry, there is still plenty left LOL! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>In a sense, <strong>my default "terms"</strong> are based on base proficiency (+2) with at best a good modifier of +3, for a total of +5. Note, this isn't necessarily a 1st level PC. This is a creature who has some training and good ability, the type of individual you would expect might make the attempt.</p><p></p><p>DC 25 is nearly impossible. Only a 20 will do it. Not impossible, but as close as you can get to impossible (i.e. "nearly") and still have a chance.</p><p>DC 20 is hard, at +5 is a 30% chance. You are much more likely to fail (more than twice as likely), but you have a decent chance to succeed.</p><p>DC 15 is medium, with +5 the creature is roughly 50/50.</p><p>DC 10 is easy, with success at 70%. You are twice as likely to succeed than fail.</p><p>DC 5 is very easy. With +5, you cannot fail. Only suffering some penalty will allow you to fail at this DC.</p><p></p><p>For me in regards to those "terms", I can just remove "Very Hard: DC 25" and shift "Nearly Impossible" to its place. Other DCs are kept at about this limit or lower. Saves for ancient dragons are 24 or lower. Fiend lords have 24-26 at worst IIRC. And so on. For AC (a type of DC), the Tarrasque at AC 25 is the highest I can think of. So, having 25 be the cap for ability checks is more reasonable than 30 IMO.</p><p></p><p>Of course, when you shift to a tier 4 PC with +11, the tasks basically shift one place each. What was nearly impossible becomes hard, hard becomes medium, and so forth. Such (super?)heroes are almost expected IMO to do tasks mere mortals find nearly impossible. Even at 35%, then can and <em>will</em> still fail much more often than not.</p><p></p><p>Now, with all that, if a task is <em>actually </em>nearly impossible, there must be a chance it can be done for anyone who tries it, including Joe Commoner! The issue is technically anyone can attempt anything in 5e (part of the issue IMO), so a nearly impossible task should be DC 20 because of the d20. Modifiers and DCs would need to be adjusted for this, however, and it wouldn't be worth the trouble to make a "nearly impossible" task actually "nearly impossible", instead of impossible.</p><p></p><p>Another solution would be allowing the d20 to explode, although this doesn't fix the core issue as I see it. Then a DC 40 could be "nearly impossible", with a 1 in 400 chance for someone with no modifier added. This would probably make some players very happy.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I can certainly appreciate bounded accuracy in many aspects even if I don't like other parts of it. While I understand the reason, in many ways I feel it bounded things <em>too</em> much.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's a sad solution back then, and the feat is a sad solution now.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd rather fix the issue than use a band-aid solution to jury-rig it so it "works".</p><p></p><p>Anyway... I will say I think you've made some good points and I appreciate your discussion on the topic. I have several options now to consider and decide which one will best suite my need and "fix" what I feel needs fixing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8704741, member: 6987520"] Ok, I had a bunch more stuff, but realized it was just fluff at this point so deleted it. But not to worry, there is still plenty left LOL! :) In a sense, [B]my default "terms"[/B] are based on base proficiency (+2) with at best a good modifier of +3, for a total of +5. Note, this isn't necessarily a 1st level PC. This is a creature who has some training and good ability, the type of individual you would expect might make the attempt. DC 25 is nearly impossible. Only a 20 will do it. Not impossible, but as close as you can get to impossible (i.e. "nearly") and still have a chance. DC 20 is hard, at +5 is a 30% chance. You are much more likely to fail (more than twice as likely), but you have a decent chance to succeed. DC 15 is medium, with +5 the creature is roughly 50/50. DC 10 is easy, with success at 70%. You are twice as likely to succeed than fail. DC 5 is very easy. With +5, you cannot fail. Only suffering some penalty will allow you to fail at this DC. For me in regards to those "terms", I can just remove "Very Hard: DC 25" and shift "Nearly Impossible" to its place. Other DCs are kept at about this limit or lower. Saves for ancient dragons are 24 or lower. Fiend lords have 24-26 at worst IIRC. And so on. For AC (a type of DC), the Tarrasque at AC 25 is the highest I can think of. So, having 25 be the cap for ability checks is more reasonable than 30 IMO. Of course, when you shift to a tier 4 PC with +11, the tasks basically shift one place each. What was nearly impossible becomes hard, hard becomes medium, and so forth. Such (super?)heroes are almost expected IMO to do tasks mere mortals find nearly impossible. Even at 35%, then can and [I]will[/I] still fail much more often than not. Now, with all that, if a task is [I]actually [/I]nearly impossible, there must be a chance it can be done for anyone who tries it, including Joe Commoner! The issue is technically anyone can attempt anything in 5e (part of the issue IMO), so a nearly impossible task should be DC 20 because of the d20. Modifiers and DCs would need to be adjusted for this, however, and it wouldn't be worth the trouble to make a "nearly impossible" task actually "nearly impossible", instead of impossible. Another solution would be allowing the d20 to explode, although this doesn't fix the core issue as I see it. Then a DC 40 could be "nearly impossible", with a 1 in 400 chance for someone with no modifier added. This would probably make some players very happy. I can certainly appreciate bounded accuracy in many aspects even if I don't like other parts of it. While I understand the reason, in many ways I feel it bounded things [I]too[/I] much. It's a sad solution back then, and the feat is a sad solution now. I'd rather fix the issue than use a band-aid solution to jury-rig it so it "works". Anyway... I will say I think you've made some good points and I appreciate your discussion on the topic. I have several options now to consider and decide which one will best suite my need and "fix" what I feel needs fixing. [/QUOTE]
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