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<blockquote data-quote="Camarath" data-source="post: 1303937" data-attributes="member: 11987">I think that the first sentence of the Armor Spikes description uses some odd language. This my interpretation of the issue.The melee touch attack to Grab the target does not deal damage. Also the opposed grapple check to Hold does not do damage. I think that to damage an opponent you must use either the Attack Your Opponent option or Damage Your Opponent option even when using Armor Spikes. I believe that what Armor Spikes description means by &quot;grapple attack&quot; is the Damage Your Opponent option. You could also use the Attack Your Opponent option if you wished because Armor Spikes are light weapons.I do not think that the Armor Spikes do unarmed damage plus 1d6 (medium). It is my opinion that they do 1d6 damage (as listed in the chart) and that the &quot;extra piercing damage&quot; talked about in the text does not mean damage in addition to normal damage but means damage which is greater that normal damage.I do not know if you can Crit. on a Grapple Check. The rules say that &quot;A grapple check is like a melee attack roll.&quot; but I am uncertain how this applies to criticals.[Edit: Of couse if you have the Improved Grab ability or the OA Improved Grapple feat you may start a grapple on an attack that did damage but I do not think that you could use your armor spikes to make those attacks.]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Camarath, post: 1303937, member: 11987"] I think that the first sentence of the Armor Spikes description uses some odd language. This my interpretation of the issue. The melee touch attack to Grab the target does not deal damage. Also the opposed grapple check to Hold does not do damage. I think that to damage an opponent you must use either the Attack Your Opponent option or Damage Your Opponent option even when using Armor Spikes. I believe that what Armor Spikes description means by "grapple attack" is the Damage Your Opponent option. You could also use the Attack Your Opponent option if you wished because Armor Spikes are light weapons. I do not think that the Armor Spikes do unarmed damage plus 1d6 (medium). It is my opinion that they do 1d6 damage (as listed in the chart) and that the "extra piercing damage" talked about in the text does not mean damage in addition to normal damage but means damage which is greater that normal damage. I do not know if you can Crit. on a Grapple Check. The rules say that "A grapple check is like a melee attack roll." but I am uncertain how this applies to criticals. [Edit: Of couse if you have the Improved Grab ability or the OA Improved Grapple feat you may start a grapple on an attack that did damage but I do not think that you could use your armor spikes to make those attacks.] [/QUOTE]

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