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How do Governments Align?
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6787728" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>Is a democracy always Good? Tyranny of the Majority is a term I recall from high school, and doesn't seem to fit the model.</p><p></p><p>Is it impossible for the people to select their leaders under an ideal of Evil? Many 20th century Fascist regimes were elected democratically, and you classify those as Evil. </p><p></p><p>There are a host of variants of "democracy", making its classification (or even definition) challenging. Are we referring to a state where every citizen votes on every issue, or the more common representative democracy (or republic) where the citizens elect representatives to make decisions for them? </p><p></p><p>I question whether any system under which the Rule of Law governs (a tenet of democracy) would be Chaotic. It seems arguable that any form of government (possibly with the exception of a single autocratic ruler, a CE "rule by might", rather than by fealty) adheres to the Chaotic ideal.</p><p></p><p>Fascism is definitely lawful. Are the tenets Evil? "The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people." The belief that outsiders have no value seems to fall outside Good, so perhaps. Acceptance of the use of violence also pushes the balance to Evil (but then, isn't acceptance of violence a core precept of most RPG's?).</p><p></p><p>I'm unclear why you link autocracy to fascism. A dictatorship is a form of autocracy (so it links historically to many fascist states), but so is an absolute monarchy. Autocracy is probably the most common form of government historically. Agreed that it is on the Lawful side of the spectrum. Good/Evil likely depends on who that absolute power is vested in. King John and King Richard (to pick Robin Hood) would be Evil and Good monarchs, at least under the traditional legends. Of course, many "monarchys" today are democracies with a figurehead monarch (although Japan was a fascist state ostensibly headed by an Emperor in WW II).</p><p></p><p>You have not included oligarchies, but again I suggest Lawful, with Good/Evil determined by the players. A theocracy is a common form of oligarchy in many fantasy settings, as are magocracies.</p><p></p><p>Communism is a classless society, described by Plato as (emphasis added) "The <strong>private and individual is altogether banished </strong>from life and things which are by nature private, such as eyes and ears and hands, have become common, and in some way see and hear and act in common, and all men express praise and feel joy and sorrow on the same occasions." That sounds as Lawful as you can get. Everyone working together for common goals, rather than pursuing one's individual best interests. By that definition, perhaps it is Capitalism which is inherently Chaotic - every man for himself, rather than every man pulling together for the common good. There are a lot of different bents on communism as well.</p><p></p><p>This is a potential fireball of a thread - mixing alignment and politics (hot topics in their own right) seems potentially a highly volatile mix. We all want to believe our own views are "Good", I think. However, I don't see most specific forms of government being inherently "good" or "evil", whether in real world shades of grey or even in the simplified fantasy world, where the revolutionary can be a brave hero in some tales, and an evil opponent of just government in others.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6787728, member: 6681948"] Is a democracy always Good? Tyranny of the Majority is a term I recall from high school, and doesn't seem to fit the model. Is it impossible for the people to select their leaders under an ideal of Evil? Many 20th century Fascist regimes were elected democratically, and you classify those as Evil. There are a host of variants of "democracy", making its classification (or even definition) challenging. Are we referring to a state where every citizen votes on every issue, or the more common representative democracy (or republic) where the citizens elect representatives to make decisions for them? I question whether any system under which the Rule of Law governs (a tenet of democracy) would be Chaotic. It seems arguable that any form of government (possibly with the exception of a single autocratic ruler, a CE "rule by might", rather than by fealty) adheres to the Chaotic ideal. Fascism is definitely lawful. Are the tenets Evil? "The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people." The belief that outsiders have no value seems to fall outside Good, so perhaps. Acceptance of the use of violence also pushes the balance to Evil (but then, isn't acceptance of violence a core precept of most RPG's?). I'm unclear why you link autocracy to fascism. A dictatorship is a form of autocracy (so it links historically to many fascist states), but so is an absolute monarchy. Autocracy is probably the most common form of government historically. Agreed that it is on the Lawful side of the spectrum. Good/Evil likely depends on who that absolute power is vested in. King John and King Richard (to pick Robin Hood) would be Evil and Good monarchs, at least under the traditional legends. Of course, many "monarchys" today are democracies with a figurehead monarch (although Japan was a fascist state ostensibly headed by an Emperor in WW II). You have not included oligarchies, but again I suggest Lawful, with Good/Evil determined by the players. A theocracy is a common form of oligarchy in many fantasy settings, as are magocracies. Communism is a classless society, described by Plato as (emphasis added) "The [B]private and individual is altogether banished [/B]from life and things which are by nature private, such as eyes and ears and hands, have become common, and in some way see and hear and act in common, and all men express praise and feel joy and sorrow on the same occasions." That sounds as Lawful as you can get. Everyone working together for common goals, rather than pursuing one's individual best interests. By that definition, perhaps it is Capitalism which is inherently Chaotic - every man for himself, rather than every man pulling together for the common good. There are a lot of different bents on communism as well. This is a potential fireball of a thread - mixing alignment and politics (hot topics in their own right) seems potentially a highly volatile mix. We all want to believe our own views are "Good", I think. However, I don't see most specific forms of government being inherently "good" or "evil", whether in real world shades of grey or even in the simplified fantasy world, where the revolutionary can be a brave hero in some tales, and an evil opponent of just government in others. [/QUOTE]
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