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<blockquote data-quote="W'rkncacnter" data-source="post: 9051624" data-attributes="member: 7033455">i think you're overthinking it.edit: let me clarify why i think this - for one, i think it's assuming a worst case scenario (i.e. a player gets obliterated), not that certain numbers are within a certain range. for another, if the creature has 2 creatures grappled, and you compare the damage the grappled creatures take to the damage the creatures that make the save take - they're effectively automatically succeeding on the save. moreover, if only 1 creature is grappled, that creature is effectively automatically failing that save. i'd argue this balances out well enough for our purposes.and 50% of the time you can assume only one creature is grappled - (24/2)+(24/2)=12+12=24.the monster building rules don't specify how many creatures are assumed to be hit, which would imply that any given attack is only expected to ever hit 1 creature and that the damage per round is based off of that - however, given the way this is written, it seems as if for the attack to be possible at all one creature must be grappled and one creature must have to be in range to make the save for the ability to activate at all, which implies a minimum of 2 targets. hence my assessment.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="W'rkncacnter, post: 9051624, member: 7033455"] i think you're overthinking it. edit: let me clarify why i think this - for one, i think it's assuming a worst case scenario (i.e. a player gets obliterated), not that certain numbers are within a certain range. for another, if the creature has 2 creatures grappled, and you compare the damage the grappled creatures take to the damage the creatures that make the save take - they're effectively automatically [I]succeeding[/I] on the save. moreover, if only 1 creature is grappled, that creature is effectively automatically failing that save. i'd argue this balances out well enough for our purposes. and 50% of the time you can assume only one creature is grappled - (24/2)+(24/2)=12+12=24. the monster building rules don't specify how many creatures are assumed to be hit, which would imply that any given attack is only expected to ever hit 1 creature and that the damage per round is based off of that - however, given the way this is written, it seems as if for the attack to be possible at all one creature [I]must[/I] be grappled and one creature [I]must[/I] have to be in range to make the save for the ability to activate at all, which implies a minimum of 2 targets. hence my assessment. [/QUOTE]

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