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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How do I disarm traps? Does Thieves' Tools do anything?
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9500179" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Just to add to [USER=6750235]@Ashrym[/USER]'s helpful note, the general problem one can identify here is ambiguity over which forms the exception and which the general.</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">General rules govern each part of the game. For example, the combat rules tell you that melee attacks use Strength and ranged attacks use Dexterity. That’s a general rule, and a general rule is in effect as long as something in the game doesn’t explicitly say otherwise.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">The game also includes elements—class features, feats, weapon properties, spells, magic items, monster abilities, and the like—that sometimes contradict a general rule. When an exception and a general rule disagree, the exception wins. For example, if a feature says you can make melee attacks using your Charisma, you can do so, even though that statement disagrees with the general rule.</p><p></p><p>To my reading, specific traps in the DMG count among those "elements" listed in the second paragraph and that text (for a specific trap) is less broad than the text for thieves tools (which applies to all traps other than specific traps). One could read the thieves' tools text to be additive, so that players can either take the approach detailed for a specific trap or "Utilize: ...disarm a trap (DC 15)". That doesn't seem right to me, as it would exclude any trap possibly being more difficult than DC 15, and I feel certain a DM ought to be able to meaningfully specify a trap as say DC 25. So it seems to me any specific text detailing a trap ought to follow the Exceptions Supersede General Rules principle.</p><p></p><p>Cases of exception/general ambiguity are not very common, but they do require DM judgement pursuant to their role of referee.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Referee.</strong> When it’s not clear what ought to happen next, the DM decides how to apply the rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9500179, member: 71699"] Just to add to [USER=6750235]@Ashrym[/USER]'s helpful note, the general problem one can identify here is ambiguity over which forms the exception and which the general. [INDENT]General rules govern each part of the game. For example, the combat rules tell you that melee attacks use Strength and ranged attacks use Dexterity. That’s a general rule, and a general rule is in effect as long as something in the game doesn’t explicitly say otherwise.[/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT]The game also includes elements—class features, feats, weapon properties, spells, magic items, monster abilities, and the like—that sometimes contradict a general rule. When an exception and a general rule disagree, the exception wins. For example, if a feature says you can make melee attacks using your Charisma, you can do so, even though that statement disagrees with the general rule.[/INDENT] To my reading, specific traps in the DMG count among those "elements" listed in the second paragraph and that text (for a specific trap) is less broad than the text for thieves tools (which applies to all traps other than specific traps). One could read the thieves' tools text to be additive, so that players can either take the approach detailed for a specific trap or "Utilize: ...disarm a trap (DC 15)". That doesn't seem right to me, as it would exclude any trap possibly being more difficult than DC 15, and I feel certain a DM ought to be able to meaningfully specify a trap as say DC 25. So it seems to me any specific text detailing a trap ought to follow the Exceptions Supersede General Rules principle. Cases of exception/general ambiguity are not very common, but they do require DM judgement pursuant to their role of referee. [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT][B]Referee.[/B] When it’s not clear what ought to happen next, the DM decides how to apply the rules.[/INDENT] [/QUOTE]
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How do I disarm traps? Does Thieves' Tools do anything?
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