Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How Do Metamagic Rods Work For Preparation Spellcasters?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="RainOfSteel" data-source="post: 3234808" data-attributes="member: 24460"><p>What do you consider the sentence <strong>"The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat."</strong> to mean, if not <strong>"The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat."</strong>? (This sentence is repeated once per type of metamagic feat.)</p><p></p><p><strong>"Can cast"</strong> is about as crystal clear as it comes.</p><p></p><p>It does <em>not</em> say <strong>"Can prepare"</strong>.</p><p></p><p>-------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>However, back to Flame Blade:</p><p></p><p>I consider the entire description, instead of individual sentences.</p><p></p><p>The sentence <strong>"You wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar."</strong> is followed by <strong>"Attacks with the flame blade are melee touch attacks."</strong></p><p></p><p>Since a character wielding a real scimitar does not use a melee touch attack (melee touch attacks do not suffer from non-proficiency penalties as far as I know), I can conclude that wielding it isn't really like wielding a scimitar after all, and that it is only speaking in general in that regard, as it is followed immediately by a game mechanic instruction that covers the situation.</p><p></p><p>If pressed, I might consider allowing a character to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Flame Blade) and then take Weapon Focus (Flame Blade) to obtain a bonus, but apply a non-proficiency penalty? No, I wouldn't do that.</p><p></p><p>----------------------------------</p><p></p><p>Since spell preparation cannot be conducted in combat, and the description of metamagic rods contains an all-cases reference to combat . . .</p><p></p><p>"All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity)."</p><p></p><p>. . . that would not even remotely be necessary, not even as an off-hand reminder, if it could not be used in combat on-the-spot (in all cases).</p><p></p><p>Any attempt to prepare a spell when combat is even nearby disrupts the preparation.</p><p></p><p>I'll update my list, then:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There is no restriction on when metagmagic rods may be used listed anywhere.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spell preparation is not mentioned anywhere in the description of metamagic rods.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The phrase, <strong>"[...] the spell being cast"</strong> at the end of paragraph one of the item description.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The phrase in each separate item description, emphasis mine, <strong>"The wielder can cast [...] <em>as though empowered</em>* by using the Empower* feat"</strong>. This clearly indicates, for all cases, that the caster is not using the Empower feat, but casting the spell as though it had been empowered using it. The rods aren't giving the feats over to the spellcaster, the rods are applying the feat in question to a spell as it is being cast. (* Or any of the other feat names.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The description of metamagic rods contains an all-cases reference to combat usage, namely <strong>"All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity)."</strong>. Spell preparation cannot be conducted when combat is even nearby. There would be no purpose to this statement, not even as an off-hand reminder, if the rods could not be used to cast spells in combat for all spellcasting wielders (if it were related to Sorcerers only, it would be listed as a Sorcerers only exception).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If metamagic rods are used by prepared spell spellcasters at spell preparation time, then this requires the assumption of new game mechanics to cover the complexities that arise from this situation. If metamagic rods are used at casting time, no new game mechanics need be introduced. (Thus, new entities beyond those necessary are not generated.)</li> </ul><p>I feel that the overwhelming majority of indicators in the description of this type of magic item indicate they may be used to cast spells at any time with no prior preparation on the part of the wielder and that the spells cast in association with the a metamagic rod's use receive the enhancement benefits indicated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RainOfSteel, post: 3234808, member: 24460"] What do you consider the sentence [b]"The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat."[/b] to mean, if not [b]"The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat."[/b]? (This sentence is repeated once per type of metamagic feat.) [b]"Can cast"[/b] is about as crystal clear as it comes. It does [i]not[/i] say [b]"Can prepare"[/b]. ------------------------------------- However, back to Flame Blade: I consider the entire description, instead of individual sentences. The sentence [b]"You wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar."[/b] is followed by [b]"Attacks with the flame blade are melee touch attacks."[/b] Since a character wielding a real scimitar does not use a melee touch attack (melee touch attacks do not suffer from non-proficiency penalties as far as I know), I can conclude that wielding it isn't really like wielding a scimitar after all, and that it is only speaking in general in that regard, as it is followed immediately by a game mechanic instruction that covers the situation. If pressed, I might consider allowing a character to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Flame Blade) and then take Weapon Focus (Flame Blade) to obtain a bonus, but apply a non-proficiency penalty? No, I wouldn't do that. ---------------------------------- Since spell preparation cannot be conducted in combat, and the description of metamagic rods contains an all-cases reference to combat . . . "All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity)." . . . that would not even remotely be necessary, not even as an off-hand reminder, if it could not be used in combat on-the-spot (in all cases). Any attempt to prepare a spell when combat is even nearby disrupts the preparation. I'll update my list, then: [list] [*]There is no restriction on when metagmagic rods may be used listed anywhere. [*]Spell preparation is not mentioned anywhere in the description of metamagic rods. [*]The phrase, [b]"[...] the spell being cast"[/b] at the end of paragraph one of the item description. [*]The phrase in each separate item description, emphasis mine, [b]"The wielder can cast [...] [i]as though empowered[/i]* by using the Empower* feat"[/b]. This clearly indicates, for all cases, that the caster is not using the Empower feat, but casting the spell as though it had been empowered using it. The rods aren't giving the feats over to the spellcaster, the rods are applying the feat in question to a spell as it is being cast. (* Or any of the other feat names.) [*]The description of metamagic rods contains an all-cases reference to combat usage, namely [b]"All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity)."[/b]. Spell preparation cannot be conducted when combat is even nearby. There would be no purpose to this statement, not even as an off-hand reminder, if the rods could not be used to cast spells in combat for all spellcasting wielders (if it were related to Sorcerers only, it would be listed as a Sorcerers only exception). [*]If metamagic rods are used by prepared spell spellcasters at spell preparation time, then this requires the assumption of new game mechanics to cover the complexities that arise from this situation. If metamagic rods are used at casting time, no new game mechanics need be introduced. (Thus, new entities beyond those necessary are not generated.) [/list] I feel that the overwhelming majority of indicators in the description of this type of magic item indicate they may be used to cast spells at any time with no prior preparation on the part of the wielder and that the spells cast in association with the a metamagic rod's use receive the enhancement benefits indicated. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How Do Metamagic Rods Work For Preparation Spellcasters?
Top