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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ace" data-source="post: 2372176" data-attributes="member: 944">No face to face gaming eh?As for living well -- most people don't -- globally most people live in abject misery. Even those that don't (say in the US) have problems -- Let me use the US for an example To live well -- say as well proportionatly as well as someone did in 1968 -- with a nice house and a car takes 2 incomes -- Someone who is 27 should reasonably be expected to have enough wealth to start a family. Many do not -- it can cost up to $25 to 50K US (including opportunity costs) to raise a child per year -- I do not think it is entitlement to expect the same percentage of the national "pie" as you parents got . heck in many cases the better educatated are making less too wages for a lot of jobs - heck even the minimum wageare about 1/3 less than at peak (1968) from Common Dreams.org (minus political bits) and adjusted for 2005 Dollars In recent decades, the minimum wage floor has fallen, dragging down average real wages as well. The real value of the minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $7.92 per hour (in 2000 dollars). Since then, worker productivity went up, but wages went down. Productivity grew 74.2 percent between 1968 and 2000, but hourly wages for average workers fell 3 percent, adjusting for inflation. Real wages for minimum wage workers--two-thirds of whom are adults--fell 35 percent.If wages had kept pace with rising productivity since 1968, the average hourly wage would have been $27.27 in 2000, rather than $15.95 (Bureau of labor stats) . The minimum wage would be $8.84--not $5.75. (most recent stats ) SNIP The minimum wage would be $13.02 if had kept pace with domestic profits and $20.46 if it had risen with retail profits. (as of 2000) CEO pay went up, but workers' wages went down. In 1980, the average CEO at a major corporation made as much as 97 minimum wage workers.  In 2000, they made as much as 1,223 minimum wage workers.(END Common Dreams material)   (my add on) I don't what 2005 stats are Basically  you and the wife are making what just you or the wife would have made --What makes this sting less is low prices for certain goods (do to manufacturing efficiency) and easy credit Basically most American properity is an illusion , you only seem  you seem to have about as much as the past generation. In reality you have 1/3 to 1/2 lessIf you were relativly  as prosperous as you were in 1968 in terms of percent of the total national "pie" the fairly ludicrous figures in that Forbes article would be what the two of you would be making with college degreesAs it is the US will undergo a major major contraction with 10-15 (IMNSHO) unless we get another computer revolution like the one spared us the last contraction-- Apologies in advance to the mods if it goes too political  -- This will be caused by the energy   supply peak, foreign competition who don't buy our goods  that produce jobs, out sourcing and horribly enough by a great increase in manufacturing efficiency --In the current US system much propsperity has folowed to the corporation or the very rich and relatively little to Joe Average Cultural barriers and (probably) international affairs issues As far as living well -- shrug -- In your kids generation (9anyone say 20 or so)  if you work for someone else outside of a few trades (not yet outsourced)  the best you can hope for 3 meals, shelter and clothes -- maybe If you want propsperity you either have to innovate or work for youself (as Phil does at least in part)</blockquote>

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