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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8599813" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I don't mind that. That is still something the players are told about. It opens up the possibility that they could look for others willing to switch sides, for instance, or finding out if the orc lady is willing to divulge other info or in some other way help the cause (assuming she survives her sudden change if allegiance, since "redemption equals death" is a common trope). Fudging, on the other hand, creates no new story and cannot be learned about or leveraged. Whether the DM thinks the players like it or hate it, every pro-fudging DM says it should be kept secret from the players, not just in the "there is a map but you have to figure out what's on it" sense but in a much stronger "you will never be allowed to know" sense.Like...I don't see how this is a complex or confusing distinction to draw. Fudging is specifically meant to set the story totally invisibly, and while I have my strong doubts about DMs' ability to maintain that invisibility eternally, I'm willing to grant it for the sake of argument. These diegetic changes, on the other hand, cannot even in principle be invisible. Sure, the DM internal motivations that caused them will be invisible, but that is true of every motivation ever. Humans cannot read minds, so motivation is invisible to us. But the actual actions themselves, the fact that action occurred, may be visible, or not. Sudden changes of heart or betrayals of trust ("curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!!"), foolish or brilliant enemy tactics, the composition and disposition of enemy forces...the list goes on. I cannot see directly why the DM chooses any of these things, but I can see THAT she has chosen them, and as a necessary result of being able to see them, I can choose to do something about them.I cannot make that choice about fudging, the DM does not want me to be capable of making it. I am intended to never even be allowed to know that fudging occurred. It is not possible for me to learn about it, to develop an understanding of what happens or attempt to figure out the motivation, if the DM is successful in preventing me from discovering her fudging. It is not just that the action is secret; it is secret and intended to never be known no matter what actions the players may take.</blockquote>

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