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How do players feel about DM fudging?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8602771" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>That quote does not advocate fudging. It advocates <em>good judgment in addition to the rules</em>. Every single thing I have advocated <em>is not fudging</em>, but IS using good judgment to <em>build</em> preferable solutions to undesirable results, as opposed to <em>invisibly forcing</em> desirable results.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It is not. My players know immediately when I choose <em>not</em> to roll the dice (or, rather, when I choose not to have <em>them</em> roll the dice). Usually because I tell them.</p><p></p><p>I have said several times that the concealment is a vital part of this. If it isn't concealed, it's not fudging. How on earth could you conceal <em>choosing not to roll?</em> You literally have to tell them about that!</p><p></p><p></p><p>I would be very unhappy (probably not <em>quite</em> as unhappy as with fudging, but very unhappy nonetheless) to learn that the DM was secretly doing things like rewriting combats <em>solely because the party was already beaten up</em> or removing traps <em>solely to not upset the players</em> etc. Cohesion in the world matters to me. The causal link between <em>my</em> choices and their <em>results</em> matters to me. Because that means the DM doesn't take my efforts seriously; I would feel like a coddled child being secretly pulled along from one attraction to another with no actual agency.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, but hear me out: What if you could avoid undesirable consequences <em>and at the same time</em> avoid any risk whatsoever of "compromising your own fun worrying about [possible fudging]"? Would you not agree that that would be the best of both worlds--preventing both the bad thing caused by unvarnished bad luck <em>and</em> the bad thing caused by not believing that the results are genuine?</p><p></p><p>Because that's what I've been advocating this whole time. I have been saying that it <em>is not necessary</em> to do the thing people are describing here. That it is entirely possible to retain consistency in the world AND avoid making secret invisible changes AND address unwanted and unpleasant side-effects, all at the same time. It just requires being open, diegetic, or prepared, or any combination of the three.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8602771, member: 6790260"] That quote does not advocate fudging. It advocates [I]good judgment in addition to the rules[/I]. Every single thing I have advocated [I]is not fudging[/I], but IS using good judgment to [I]build[/I] preferable solutions to undesirable results, as opposed to [I]invisibly forcing[/I] desirable results. It is not. My players know immediately when I choose [I]not[/I] to roll the dice (or, rather, when I choose not to have [I]them[/I] roll the dice). Usually because I tell them. I have said several times that the concealment is a vital part of this. If it isn't concealed, it's not fudging. How on earth could you conceal [I]choosing not to roll?[/I] You literally have to tell them about that![I][/I] I would be very unhappy (probably not [I]quite[/I] as unhappy as with fudging, but very unhappy nonetheless) to learn that the DM was secretly doing things like rewriting combats [I]solely because the party was already beaten up[/I] or removing traps [I]solely to not upset the players[/I] etc. Cohesion in the world matters to me. The causal link between [I]my[/I] choices and their [I]results[/I] matters to me. Because that means the DM doesn't take my efforts seriously; I would feel like a coddled child being secretly pulled along from one attraction to another with no actual agency. Okay, but hear me out: What if you could avoid undesirable consequences [I]and at the same time[/I] avoid any risk whatsoever of "compromising your own fun worrying about [possible fudging]"? Would you not agree that that would be the best of both worlds--preventing both the bad thing caused by unvarnished bad luck [I]and[/I] the bad thing caused by not believing that the results are genuine? Because that's what I've been advocating this whole time. I have been saying that it [I]is not necessary[/I] to do the thing people are describing here. That it is entirely possible to retain consistency in the world AND avoid making secret invisible changes AND address unwanted and unpleasant side-effects, all at the same time. It just requires being open, diegetic, or prepared, or any combination of the three. [/QUOTE]
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