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How do players feel about DM fudging?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8603482" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>What facts? You seem to be making an assumption and calling it a fact, because there's nothing in the quote, as noted, that says "fudging" and that is the fact.</p><p></p><p>I violently disagree with the idea that rerolls came from fudging. I mean, rerolls existed in games long before the idea of a single gamemaster directing the game, much less secret die rolls. It's a bit extreme to say that the GM choosing outcomes in spite of what the mechanics used said morphed into using mechanics normally. Your hangup on die roll changes is showing here, and you've yet to do anything to acknowledge the differences pointed out by multiple posters. You just keep asserting that what you want it true, and then telling others that they're doing what you've done (erroneously in many cases -- erroneously in the sense that they haven't done what you've done and erroneously in the sense that you've made erroneous assertions).</p><p></p><p>An accidental death and a murder are the same result as well. Please stop making "ends negate the means" arguments.</p><p></p><p>Well, as pointed out, rerolls are not choosing the outcome unilaterally in spite of the mechanics. Which is what fudging is. Fudging is not the same thing, categorically, as a reroll. You keep focusing on results, but that ignores that a reroll may not change the result while fudging always does.</p><p></p><p>No, secrecy aids the GM in choosing the story outcome the GM wants regardless of actual play -- which is what fudging does. Open rerolls are using the mechanics to create the outcome -- no choice by anyone.</p><p></p><p>There are no player fudging mechanics in D&D. None. But if we use your weird definition of a reroll being fudging, you need to start with chapter one in AD&D with the various stat generation methods therein.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8603482, member: 16814"] What facts? You seem to be making an assumption and calling it a fact, because there's nothing in the quote, as noted, that says "fudging" and that is the fact. I violently disagree with the idea that rerolls came from fudging. I mean, rerolls existed in games long before the idea of a single gamemaster directing the game, much less secret die rolls. It's a bit extreme to say that the GM choosing outcomes in spite of what the mechanics used said morphed into using mechanics normally. Your hangup on die roll changes is showing here, and you've yet to do anything to acknowledge the differences pointed out by multiple posters. You just keep asserting that what you want it true, and then telling others that they're doing what you've done (erroneously in many cases -- erroneously in the sense that they haven't done what you've done and erroneously in the sense that you've made erroneous assertions). An accidental death and a murder are the same result as well. Please stop making "ends negate the means" arguments. Well, as pointed out, rerolls are not choosing the outcome unilaterally in spite of the mechanics. Which is what fudging is. Fudging is not the same thing, categorically, as a reroll. You keep focusing on results, but that ignores that a reroll may not change the result while fudging always does. No, secrecy aids the GM in choosing the story outcome the GM wants regardless of actual play -- which is what fudging does. Open rerolls are using the mechanics to create the outcome -- no choice by anyone. There are no player fudging mechanics in D&D. None. But if we use your weird definition of a reroll being fudging, you need to start with chapter one in AD&D with the various stat generation methods therein. [/QUOTE]
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How do players feel about DM fudging?
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