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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3774523" data-attributes="member: 2011">I'm not disputing the utility of perception type skills.I do dispute that the success rate should be so high for the entire party at the same level.Where do you get this 4:1 ratio of bad guys to PCs?From what I have read, they want it to be 1:1. Do you have a quote?It's not orthogonal to discussing potential new skill rules. It's key.Totally agreed. As the SWSE rules are currently written, one cannot use a skill against a defense or the whole thing falls apart. One has to use skills against opposed skills.Defense = 10 + level + ability modifierSkill = D20 + level/2 + ability modifier + 10 (assuming trained and skill focus)or reducing this:Defense = levelSkill = D20 + level/2At 1st level, this means one has to roll a one. At 30th level, one has to roll a 15.As you noted, the math for this just does not work. At all.If the designers want skills versus defenses, the reduction should be either:Defense = 10 + level/2Skill = D20 + level/2or:Defense = 10 + levelSkill = D20 + levelI prefer the first (since it means that mooks several levels lower are still challenges and BBEGs several levels higher are not overwhelming), but the second would be semi-ok.It's how often they succeed, not that they succeed.The entire premise of SWSE is that people improve slightly in skills, even if they are not trained to use them. Btw, I like this premise a lot. Taking this to 4E, the Wizard is not trained in Perception. But, he's been in 2318 different dungeons. He is so experience in dungeon crawling day in and day out that he should be super perceptive. Not as perceptive as the Rogue, but still good at it.At 30th level, the Wizard is +17. That's a nice solid modifier. On the surface, it sounds good. He notices a lot of stuff. Except he almost never notices the 30th level monster with the Hide skill trained and focused. The Monster is +30 and the Wizard only sees him <20% of the time.Just like 20th level bad saves in 3.5, it just ain't gonna happen.Now suddenly, there are 4 monsters instead of 1 and 5 PCs. The 5 PCs will almost always see these super hidden monsters unless the rules are changed.So, there are two issues here. The chance of an individual spotting (which is too low) and the chance of a group spotting a group (which is too high). The two problems tug at each other because one is in support of making the chance worse and the other at making it better.</blockquote>

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