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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FalcWP" data-source="post: 3850853" data-attributes="member: 16858">Honestly, Shifters are something I like, but it took me quite a while to... must resist the urge to say 'shift'... change my viewpoint to that.  For a while, I really liked Changelings, liked Warforged, and had problems with Kalashtar and Shifters.  Still dislike the Kalashtar, but Shifters have gotten to where I like them mechanically and can certainly see a place for them in the setting.I'll admit that you could probably lose shifters and not really be hurting all that much - replace any instance of a shifter with, say, a half-orc and you're mostly ok (even including the Purge by the Silver Flame).  I think this is actually the big weakness - how similar they are to half-orcs.  Good physical ability, limited mental ability.  Often found in wilderness areas.  Great trackers (which steps on House Tharashk's toes).  They're very similar races, altogether, and there isn't all that much to distinguish them, other than how folks react... and even there, it tends to be similar (ie... frightened or hostile if they're unfamiliar with shifters and half-orcs, or normally if they are).  It would be nice if there was some way that they were important, rather than a neat add-on.  But I still like using them as NPCs and could certainly see playing one.When you're looking at them as they relate to the setting... no, they don't have a real nation.  Yeah, the Eldeen, sort of, but there are lots of humans and half-orcs and the like there, too.  Really, shifters have the chance to be important on a more local level - you could certainly have villages of shifters, or individual ones roaming about.  They're likely to be the best trackers around, short of Tharashk (which means some folks like, say, House Deneith probably favor shifter trackers), and they're excellent scouts.  If a shifter isn't in a shifter village (or somewhere like Sharn, where very few races draw extra glances)... how and why did he get there?  Shifters who are outside shifter villages likely travel a lot... how has that affected them?I think shifters make a really fun PC race, even if they're unlikely to be movers and shakers as NPCs.  As NPCs go, they're certainly usable - bodyguards and trackers for a big bad or another organization, assassins or competing adventurers.  Heck, even a big bad shifter, looking to carve out a shifter nation in much the same manner as the Lord of Blades, though quite possibly more sympathetic.As far as changelings go... as I said above, its a race I sort of fell in love with when I first got Eberron, and, while that's been tempered quite a bit (I'd still play one, but only in the right campaign; I do use them as NPCs, though), they're still a great addition.  The one thing to remember when looking at changelings and trying to figure out how they have impacted history or what their influence is is that you *cannot know*, short of things like true seeing.  If you're DMing, and you want to say that folks in the Brelish Court have staged a silent coup, imprisoned the king (or killed him) and placed a changeling on the throne... you can.  If you want to say that some great half-elf hero of the Last War was actually a changeling mercenary... go ahead.  The big bad your PCs have been tracking down for months, who they have tangled with a couple times, and could draw his face in their sleep?  Changeling, who just took on the guise of a serving girl and walked right past the PCs.I think changelings honestly work *better* as an NPC race than as a PC race, though, as I said, I'd still love to play one in the right game - intrigue heavy, something where being able to take on various guises is important to my character rather than a neat parlor trick.  But if you think that they don't have a real place in Eberron... well, you've just made a number of changelings very, very happy, because that makes their job much easier.</blockquote>

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