Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How do we fix the Sorcerer?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7373927" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>I agree it's a real design challenge! Create a class recognizable as a sorcerer to players of 3rd & 4th edition, yet is distinct enough to merit its own place alongside other arcane spellcasters that don't prepare spells, and btw can it evoke "fantasy novel" magic besides Vancian magic without creating a 30-page subsystem just for one class?</p><p></p><p>It's a tall order, and the kind of thing that would take a design team with good playtesting feedback & the time to "do it right."</p><p></p><p>Conceptually, at least, I can see one approach that could be viable: Cantrips Plus.</p><p></p><p>The idea – which I've dubbed Cantrips Plus – is that cantrips carry the brunt of this hypothetical revised sorcerer's magic. Maybe a sorcerer can learn a few actual spells, but these would probably be via subclass features, not part of the base class.</p><p></p><p>Each cantrip entry would be much like in the PHB (though there'd be maybe 6-10 more), but would include a section on "Sorcerous Upgrades" for ways a sorcerer can spend Sorcery Points improving/changing the cantrip. These would be in addition to a more universal list like Metamagic. And class/sub-class features could add additional improvements/changes to various cantrips. </p><p></p><p>However, whenever using a cantrip in an improved/changed way, the sorcerer risks some kind of wild surge which might create an unexpected effect or "short circuit" their ability to use that cantrip until taking a rest.</p><p></p><p>For other magical effects not encapsulated in the cantrips, they'd be class features...possibly akin to Eldritch Invocations but taking inspiration from some of the 4e sorcerer's stuff. So a Storm sorcerer might gain a flight speed at a high enough level, rather than casting <em>fly</em>; this has the interesting effect of making certain powers iconic to a sorcerer unable to be dispelled – that makes an interesting narrative niche for a sorcerer who is so innately magical that <em>dispel magic</em> can't "extinguish" the magic in their blood.</p><p></p><p>It's rough form, but I think it would meet all points of the design challenge.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7373927, member: 20323"] I agree it's a real design challenge! Create a class recognizable as a sorcerer to players of 3rd & 4th edition, yet is distinct enough to merit its own place alongside other arcane spellcasters that don't prepare spells, and btw can it evoke "fantasy novel" magic besides Vancian magic without creating a 30-page subsystem just for one class? It's a tall order, and the kind of thing that would take a design team with good playtesting feedback & the time to "do it right." Conceptually, at least, I can see one approach that could be viable: Cantrips Plus. The idea – which I've dubbed Cantrips Plus – is that cantrips carry the brunt of this hypothetical revised sorcerer's magic. Maybe a sorcerer can learn a few actual spells, but these would probably be via subclass features, not part of the base class. Each cantrip entry would be much like in the PHB (though there'd be maybe 6-10 more), but would include a section on "Sorcerous Upgrades" for ways a sorcerer can spend Sorcery Points improving/changing the cantrip. These would be in addition to a more universal list like Metamagic. And class/sub-class features could add additional improvements/changes to various cantrips. However, whenever using a cantrip in an improved/changed way, the sorcerer risks some kind of wild surge which might create an unexpected effect or "short circuit" their ability to use that cantrip until taking a rest. For other magical effects not encapsulated in the cantrips, they'd be class features...possibly akin to Eldritch Invocations but taking inspiration from some of the 4e sorcerer's stuff. So a Storm sorcerer might gain a flight speed at a high enough level, rather than casting [I]fly[/I]; this has the interesting effect of making certain powers iconic to a sorcerer unable to be dispelled – that makes an interesting narrative niche for a sorcerer who is so innately magical that [I]dispel magic[/I] can't "extinguish" the magic in their blood. It's rough form, but I think it would meet all points of the design challenge. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How do we fix the Sorcerer?
Top