Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How do we fix the Sorcerer?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7374750" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>One thing about how magic works outside of the Dying Earth in the broader SF/Fantasy genre - it's usually either glossed over & subordinate to the plot, or it's simpler & makes more sense than D&D's casting sub-systems typically do. OK, occasionally both.</p><p></p><p>And 3e & 4e Sorcerers, while similar in concept, were worlds apart in what their mechanical implementations implied about magic & their relationships to it.</p><p></p><p>In 4e, every arcane caster got his own list of spells, with virtually no overlap. This created an impression that magic was, yes, varied, but also personal - for everyone. No wizard was going to learn every spell in existence, for instance, not even close, not even theoretically. </p><p></p><p>In 3e, the sorcerer & wizard shared virtually the same list (but for a couple of spells that affected preparation, so meant nothing to the sorcerer, mechanically). Any wizard might learn any wizard/sorcerer spell at any time, and any Sorcerer might develop that same spell independently. That makes magic universal, not personal - especially for the wizard. And, while the sorcerer's limited, infrequently changed spells known makes his magic personal, in one sense, it's still the same magic - the same spells, the same components, the same effects, etc... </p><p></p><p>Giving the sorcerer exclusive metamagic was actually an inspired solution. It made the sorcerer's magic more intuitive and unique, because he could mess around with it and vary it from the norm. They could even have left them identical spell lists, I suppose.</p><p></p><p>So it's not so much recognizable that looks to me like the problem. The sorcerer is an innate mage using magic that heavily overlaps with that of the learned wizard, as he was in 3e, and a user of personal magic of the Dragon and Wild varieties as he was in 4e. It's recognizable, it just doesn't deliver on the feel or experience - or, of course, mechanics, inevitably. And that's as much a function of the other caster designs and the spell lists as the Sorcerer design.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7374750, member: 996"] One thing about how magic works outside of the Dying Earth in the broader SF/Fantasy genre - it's usually either glossed over & subordinate to the plot, or it's simpler & makes more sense than D&D's casting sub-systems typically do. OK, occasionally both. And 3e & 4e Sorcerers, while similar in concept, were worlds apart in what their mechanical implementations implied about magic & their relationships to it. In 4e, every arcane caster got his own list of spells, with virtually no overlap. This created an impression that magic was, yes, varied, but also personal - for everyone. No wizard was going to learn every spell in existence, for instance, not even close, not even theoretically. In 3e, the sorcerer & wizard shared virtually the same list (but for a couple of spells that affected preparation, so meant nothing to the sorcerer, mechanically). Any wizard might learn any wizard/sorcerer spell at any time, and any Sorcerer might develop that same spell independently. That makes magic universal, not personal - especially for the wizard. And, while the sorcerer's limited, infrequently changed spells known makes his magic personal, in one sense, it's still the same magic - the same spells, the same components, the same effects, etc... Giving the sorcerer exclusive metamagic was actually an inspired solution. It made the sorcerer's magic more intuitive and unique, because he could mess around with it and vary it from the norm. They could even have left them identical spell lists, I suppose. So it's not so much recognizable that looks to me like the problem. The sorcerer is an innate mage using magic that heavily overlaps with that of the learned wizard, as he was in 3e, and a user of personal magic of the Dragon and Wild varieties as he was in 4e. It's recognizable, it just doesn't deliver on the feel or experience - or, of course, mechanics, inevitably. And that's as much a function of the other caster designs and the spell lists as the Sorcerer design. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How do we fix the Sorcerer?
Top