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How do we make economics that do not limit character concepts?
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<blockquote data-quote="redrover" data-source="post: 4408040" data-attributes="member: 70799"><p><strong>darkrose50:</strong> Great post. Here goes:</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: #ffff99">Note: One may upgrade a magical item by paying the difference in values between the levels.</span></em></p><p></p><p>I like this all right, provided it requires an appropriate <u>ritual</u> and access to a <u>crafter</u> with the ability to create items at the target level (or, as you noted below, its abilities come from the user).</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: #ffff99">Note: Starting at fifth level one item may be a legendary legacy proximity item</span></em></p><p></p><p>Can't buy this. <u>Legendary</u> character <em>screams</em> Epic Tier at me. As a working concept, I might buy into it at <u>Paragon</u>, but not below. The 4e rules scale differently than previous editions, especially at the low end -- old edition 0-level monsters scale at Levels 1-2, and old 1 Hit Die monster races scale around 3rd, the old 6 HD minotaur comes in around 10th in 4e, and so on.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I would favor creating such an item to be a player choice with an <u>XP cost</u> of some sort. The idea being the item is infused with the life energy of the hero. </p><p></p><p>Or maybe some other method--maybe go 5 levels with, say 3-4 <u>fewer healing surges</u> than normal, since you are diverting energy into your item. </p><p></p><p>Another idea is a <u>feat</u> that allows a <u>signature item</u>. This might be extended to include infusion of personal power into an item (say +1/5 levels). I'd favor a lengthy recharge time for a replacement weapon, say 1 month to bring it up to the character's level limit for a replacement weapon.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and a player who ditches an infused item just to create another one -- sounds like a good source of cursed items to me. The safe way would be to unmake an item if you're going to infuse a replacement. </p><p></p><p>One exception might be character death, which severs the tie of dependence/resentment between infused item and character. This would be an alternative (and more painful) way of wiping the slate.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ffff99">Second cornerstone:</span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>I'm having a little difficulty sorting this one out. It would help if you would define your terms: core item, wondrous slot, and so on. However:</p><p></p><p>You might consider a little more "by-Tier" distinction, as opposed to continuous periodic upgrades. </p><p></p><p>Giving someone a bonus at Level 30 doesn't really give them a lot of time to enjoy it.</p><p></p><p>I really like your treatment of <u>attunement.</u> </p><p></p><p>I'm not crazy about <u>untuning</u> being an action--I think keeping a slot attuned until another item is attuned is a better mechanic -- this would also allow the introduction of an item keyword "Cursed" that prevents an item from being untuned unless a specific ritual is performed.</p><p></p><p>Configure 0-level items as "magical minions"; that is, four per Tier, swapped in at short rests.</p><p></p><p>I would make your last point your first point in this list.</p><p></p><p> <span style="color: #ffff99"><strong><strong>Character Level, And Core [/B</strong></strong></span><strong></strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p><strong>I have no idea what you mean by any of these inserted blocks; you've lost me completely.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><span style="color: #ffff99">Third cornerstone:</span></strong><span style="color: #ffff99"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ffff99"></span></strong></p><p><strong>I like the nature spirit background theory. Can't wait to see some crunch that allows different DMs to attain the same page when they run this at some group event (like a tournament).</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Locally, we've used the house rule that magic items don't break against mundane items or items of lesser enchantment (unless some factor unknown to the characters is in play). This was instituted at a time we experimented with weapon breaking rules that did not differentiate between magic and nonmagic. We considered it a fairness issue and pretty much kept the concept ever since.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><span style="color: #ffff99">Fourth cornerstone:</span></strong></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>I like your whole campaign set-up. The <u>magic item agents</u> in particular sound like an excellent concept for a Paragon Path.</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="redrover, post: 4408040, member: 70799"] [B]darkrose50:[/B] Great post. Here goes: [I][COLOR=#ffff99]Note: One may upgrade a magical item by paying the difference in values between the levels.[/COLOR][/I] I like this all right, provided it requires an appropriate [U]ritual[/U] and access to a [U]crafter[/U] with the ability to create items at the target level (or, as you noted below, its abilities come from the user). [I][COLOR=#ffff99]Note: Starting at fifth level one item may be a legendary legacy proximity item[/COLOR][/I] Can't buy this. [U]Legendary[/U] character [I]screams[/I] Epic Tier at me. As a working concept, I might buy into it at [U]Paragon[/U], but not below. The 4e rules scale differently than previous editions, especially at the low end -- old edition 0-level monsters scale at Levels 1-2, and old 1 Hit Die monster races scale around 3rd, the old 6 HD minotaur comes in around 10th in 4e, and so on. Personally, I would favor creating such an item to be a player choice with an [U]XP cost[/U] of some sort. The idea being the item is infused with the life energy of the hero. Or maybe some other method--maybe go 5 levels with, say 3-4 [U]fewer healing surges[/U] than normal, since you are diverting energy into your item. Another idea is a [U]feat[/U] that allows a [U]signature item[/U]. This might be extended to include infusion of personal power into an item (say +1/5 levels). I'd favor a lengthy recharge time for a replacement weapon, say 1 month to bring it up to the character's level limit for a replacement weapon. Oh, and a player who ditches an infused item just to create another one -- sounds like a good source of cursed items to me. The safe way would be to unmake an item if you're going to infuse a replacement. One exception might be character death, which severs the tie of dependence/resentment between infused item and character. This would be an alternative (and more painful) way of wiping the slate. [B][COLOR=#ffff99]Second cornerstone:[/COLOR] [/B] I'm having a little difficulty sorting this one out. It would help if you would define your terms: core item, wondrous slot, and so on. However: You might consider a little more "by-Tier" distinction, as opposed to continuous periodic upgrades. Giving someone a bonus at Level 30 doesn't really give them a lot of time to enjoy it. I really like your treatment of [U]attunement.[/U] I'm not crazy about [U]untuning[/U] being an action--I think keeping a slot attuned until another item is attuned is a better mechanic -- this would also allow the introduction of an item keyword "Cursed" that prevents an item from being untuned unless a specific ritual is performed. Configure 0-level items as "magical minions"; that is, four per Tier, swapped in at short rests. I would make your last point your first point in this list. [COLOR=#ffff99][b][B]Character Level, And Core [/B[/B][/b][/COLOR][b] I have no idea what you mean by any of these inserted blocks; you've lost me completely. [B][COLOR=#ffff99]Third cornerstone:[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=#ffff99] [/COLOR] I like the nature spirit background theory. Can't wait to see some crunch that allows different DMs to attain the same page when they run this at some group event (like a tournament). Locally, we've used the house rule that magic items don't break against mundane items or items of lesser enchantment (unless some factor unknown to the characters is in play). This was instituted at a time we experimented with weapon breaking rules that did not differentiate between magic and nonmagic. We considered it a fairness issue and pretty much kept the concept ever since. [B][COLOR=#ffff99]Fourth cornerstone:[/COLOR][/B] I like your whole campaign set-up. The [U]magic item agents[/U] in particular sound like an excellent concept for a Paragon Path.[/b] [/QUOTE]
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