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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How do you backstab an ooze? (and more general play time considerations)
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<blockquote data-quote="eriktheguy" data-source="post: 5484505" data-attributes="member: 83662"><p>To be clear, oozes don't need to have backs because rogues don't backstab. They sneak attack. The sneak attack entry makes no mention of backs, weak points, vital organs, or anatomy. If you started playing D&D with 4e, you probably would not assume that opponents without weak points cannot be sneak attacked. It is a relic of older times.</p><p></p><p>I just allow it in my game. Nothing about oozes really makes any realistic sense, so trying to deny players damage saying "it's not realistic" is basically jut punishing them for not being wizards.</p><p></p><p>In previous editions, magic often got a veto against such immunities.</p><p>The rogue proclaims "<em>I attack vital points for extra damage</em>" and suddenly their attacks fail to work against half the monsters in the book.</p><p>The wizard sees this folly and learns from it. "<em>My attacks are magic! They're a mystery</em>". It's suddenly hard to argue why they shouldn't work.</p><p>For some reason, formless ghosts take less damage from physical attacks, but full damage from fire or lighting. If only a physics major were there to explain how fire and lightning work! The wizard's attacks would lose their mystery and ghosts would be immune to those (very physical) effects as well.</p><p></p><p>But in 4e we did away with most of that. Maybe the rogue just takes a few extra jabs against undefended foes. Maybe he has time to give the blade an extra twist and shove because the foe who grants combat advantage is not defending themselves properly. The bottom line is, rogues with combat advantage deal more damage.</p><p></p><p>4e is about strengths, not weaknesses. There are no more monsters immune to sneak attacks or critical hits (why shouldn't a construct have a critical part that can be broken, why shouldn't a zombie die when you break its neck)? There are no more anti-magic fields (oh look, a beholder. I'll put the wand away and go sit down while the fighter handles this).</p><p></p><p>If you want to give the wizard a chance to shine, make the oozes weak against area attacks in your encounter. You could certainly argue why it should be true. I don't think that taking away the rogue's striker mechanic against oozes is a good solution to your problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eriktheguy, post: 5484505, member: 83662"] To be clear, oozes don't need to have backs because rogues don't backstab. They sneak attack. The sneak attack entry makes no mention of backs, weak points, vital organs, or anatomy. If you started playing D&D with 4e, you probably would not assume that opponents without weak points cannot be sneak attacked. It is a relic of older times. I just allow it in my game. Nothing about oozes really makes any realistic sense, so trying to deny players damage saying "it's not realistic" is basically jut punishing them for not being wizards. In previous editions, magic often got a veto against such immunities. The rogue proclaims "[I]I attack vital points for extra damage[/I]" and suddenly their attacks fail to work against half the monsters in the book. The wizard sees this folly and learns from it. "[I]My attacks are magic! They're a mystery[/I]". It's suddenly hard to argue why they shouldn't work. For some reason, formless ghosts take less damage from physical attacks, but full damage from fire or lighting. If only a physics major were there to explain how fire and lightning work! The wizard's attacks would lose their mystery and ghosts would be immune to those (very physical) effects as well. But in 4e we did away with most of that. Maybe the rogue just takes a few extra jabs against undefended foes. Maybe he has time to give the blade an extra twist and shove because the foe who grants combat advantage is not defending themselves properly. The bottom line is, rogues with combat advantage deal more damage. 4e is about strengths, not weaknesses. There are no more monsters immune to sneak attacks or critical hits (why shouldn't a construct have a critical part that can be broken, why shouldn't a zombie die when you break its neck)? There are no more anti-magic fields (oh look, a beholder. I'll put the wand away and go sit down while the fighter handles this). If you want to give the wizard a chance to shine, make the oozes weak against area attacks in your encounter. You could certainly argue why it should be true. I don't think that taking away the rogue's striker mechanic against oozes is a good solution to your problem. [/QUOTE]
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How do you backstab an ooze? (and more general play time considerations)
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