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<blockquote data-quote="Squire James" data-source="post: 342689" data-attributes="member: 548">In my case, I allowed exactly one player use the Harm spell as written, once.&nbsp; It was a one-shot where I let PC's test out level 20 characters against some CR 20-24 opponents.&nbsp; I think one guy hitting a dragon twice with Arrows of Wounding coupled with a Harm spell that left 1 hp a bit too easy for a White Great Wyrm.&nbsp; Not exactly 25% of their resources.&nbsp; While the demon encounters were tougher (Unholy Blight isn't bad... 10 at the same time is bad!), the &quot;boss&quot; encounters were all solved quickly with a Harm (or in the case of a large group of undead) a Mass Heal.I told them after the adventure that I would nerf Harm, but I needed a week to think about it.&nbsp; Nobody seemed to object... everyone thought Harm-like effects made combat too much like 1e &quot;win initiative&quot; battles.Finally, I settled on a simple solution.&nbsp; The best part about Harm is that it does lots of damage to creatures with high HP while allowing no saving throw.&nbsp; I wanted to preserve this aspect.&nbsp; So the Harm spell cuts the enemy's current HP in half, no save.&nbsp; Still lots of potential damage, still good on dragons and other guys with good Fort saves, but not an &quot;ender&quot; spell.This is the only spell I got that drastic with yet, though I'm now thinking about Haste.&nbsp; I'm thinking of separating the two effects into 2 spells called Haste (extra partial action) and Speed (+4 speed bonus to AC).&nbsp; Haste still looks like 3rd level, and Speed looks like a strong 2nd level or weak 3rd level.&nbsp; Hmm...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Squire James, post: 342689, member: 548"] In my case, I allowed exactly one player use the Harm spell as written, once. It was a one-shot where I let PC's test out level 20 characters against some CR 20-24 opponents. I think one guy hitting a dragon twice with Arrows of Wounding coupled with a Harm spell that left 1 hp a bit too easy for a White Great Wyrm. Not exactly 25% of their resources. While the demon encounters were tougher (Unholy Blight isn't bad... 10 at the same time is bad!), the "boss" encounters were all solved quickly with a Harm (or in the case of a large group of undead) a Mass Heal. I told them after the adventure that I would nerf Harm, but I needed a week to think about it. Nobody seemed to object... everyone thought Harm-like effects made combat too much like 1e "win initiative" battles. Finally, I settled on a simple solution. The best part about Harm is that it does lots of damage to creatures with high HP while allowing no saving throw. I wanted to preserve this aspect. So the Harm spell cuts the enemy's current HP in half, no save. Still lots of potential damage, still good on dragons and other guys with good Fort saves, but not an "ender" spell. This is the only spell I got that drastic with yet, though I'm now thinking about Haste. I'm thinking of separating the two effects into 2 spells called Haste (extra partial action) and Speed (+4 speed bonus to AC). Haste still looks like 3rd level, and Speed looks like a strong 2nd level or weak 3rd level. Hmm... [/QUOTE]

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