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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DethStryke" data-source="post: 2033596" data-attributes="member: 1309">I've been playing for number of years, around 15 now, and that was through High School and into adulthood. As it has been mentioned above, there are fewer choices with who you can game with when you're under 21. Heck, having a car makes the difference. So you end up dealing with a lot more crap than you will when you're older.In my opinion, there are different types of games and styles, and all of them are good in their own way. For optimum performance, you should only game with people who share your views on how a game should be. I'm not a fan of whiners, rules lawyers, lazy lay-abouts, complainers and those who refuse to learn the rules despite showing up every game. If you need to be told which die to roll for an attack every time for over a year, something is very wrong. I constantly solicit feedback and beg for constructive criticism, which I’ve gotten good at taking without being all hurt and pissy about.However, that kind of casual gaming and the like are all valid ways to enjoy yourself. Just because I’m neurotic and enjoy huge amounts of depth in games doesn’t mean every game should be that way. The name of the game is enjoyment. I don't enjoy those styles, so I choose the people I game with carefully. Otherwise, I don't enjoy myself and what's the point of playing otherwise? Trying to mix oil and water, however, is equally bad. I have found that being friends outside of the game table with the problem player leads to a majority of those “this player is (insert bad gamer stereotype here) and my group can’t cope!” situations.To illustrate my point, below are two fundamental examples and how I remedied the situations:Style Example:I have a very good friend of mine that I introduced D&D to. She enjoys role-playing and constantly begs me to run games for her to play in. She's played in a couple campaigns with other groups which were less than stellar, in her opinion. However, she doesn't get very enthused by Fantasy settings in the first place. It just isn't her cup of tea. So when playing D&D, she's not enthusiastic about anything going on. She would goof off the entire game and have to be called to pay attention then repeat everything said so she could hear it. She doesn't know any of the rules and has to ask what dice to roll for attacks after years of playing still. Gah! For my sanity, I actually did not invite her to my D&D game after a while because I was interested in taking the game in directions that she was not interested in (more depth, more story lines and the like). I choose the players for their interest in what I'm doing with the game, and that way everyone involved will enjoy themselves. She was not enjoying herself but was playing because she didn't want to hurt my feelings by not coming. Not including her in that game was the right move, but I also suggested that she find a group that played a setting that she likes.She LOVES star wars. So, when I finally ran a Star Wars game, she was the top of the list to invite. Her interest alone compelled her to read the handbook, learn about the game dynamics, focus and not goof off as much as she was before by a long shot. Basically, it was night and day. If you like what you are doing, you are more likely to be a good player. She is now one of the best players at the table and we are all happier in this situation. Bottom line is that interest in the game at hand can really be the reason they don’t respond well. Maybe they are not interested in the setting. Getting a person set up in a game they like can change a bad player into a good one very easily.Personal Example:Another friend of mind has been playing D&D for around 30 years and is VERY into RPGs of all kinds. Like many here, he has row after row of game books stretching back to the basic D&D box sets. He is a decent DM, though a bit static and inflexible… basically he over-prepares and cannot handle ANYTHING outside of his pre-made format. Still, for your basic dungeon crawl or a horror theme, I enjoy the odd game at his table as long as I leave some of my creativity and ability to think outside the box at home (Hey, sometimes not having to think a lot is fun. That’s why I own a TV as well.)As a player he is the most headstrong, opinionated, whiny rules lawyer I’ve had the displeasure to meet and game with. On more than one occasion I’ve seen him have temper tantrums (he’s almost 40, mind you) that have culminated in him actually throwing the character sheet (or ripping it up) and storming out of the house. I refuse to run any game with him in it, however another mutual friend (and childhood friend of the one in question) tried to give him the benefit of the doubt a number of times.Over 5 years of times.Every game that people have played with him in any setting has always led the rest of the players to hate him and band together against his character. He ALWAYS has to be the center of attention and the leader of any party. He doesn’t notice anything outside of his tunnel vision, be it details the DM mentions blatantly or any input from the other players. He will constantly call people or their actions stupid, and speaks in a very condescending tone to anyone at the table. He becomes the constant butt of the other player’s jokes, which he doesn’t realize due to the afore-mentioned tunnel vision and lack of attention. In short, he is every DM’s nightmare player. We tried being nice, we tried ranting at him, we tried explaining in every way possible how his attitude and behavior was not welcome and tried to meet him in the middle before outright demanding that he knock that crap off.His basic response has been between either “I’m the way I am, so sorry, but that’s what you get” to “ok, I’ll try” which makes the next session better before he slips back to his old ways before two more sessions pass. We have now a long standing agreement to never tell him about any game we’re in and not invite him to anything we do. So essentially, the only games he knows about are the ones he runs himself.In this example, he is the way he is. Outside of the game he can still be annoying, but not anything like he is at the game table. So everyone chooses to just remove him from the game table. Though it will probably cause a scene if he ever finds out about the fact that for years now we have hid all these games from him, but since he has that super tunnel vision and inability to pick things up, I don’t see it happening. With this type of player, nothing is going to change him so you just either put up with the crap or remove him from the group. There is no middle ground. Personally, I would tell him outright that I don’t want to game with him. If they are not mature enough to leave it at the table, then that person is probably creating more drama in your life than anyone really needs and perhaps severing your acquaintance is best anyway.</blockquote>

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