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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 1867998" data-attributes="member: 177">In the real world, we have no absolute measure against which we may measure our behaviors and motivations.&nbsp; In D&amp;D, we do.In D&amp;D, evil is the result of actions that cause pain, suffering, oppression, and other forms of harm.&nbsp; Whether or not they self-identify as Good, a person who causes those things when he could do otherwise is committing evil acts, and will be evil.&nbsp; IN D&amp;D, there is a point (determined by the individual DM) where the ends no longer justify the means, and the harm caused by actions outweighs good results.&nbsp; Though, honestly, I don't know if it is true that in the real world evil people almost never self-identify as evil.&nbsp; While there may be the occasional leader who does evil things for what they believe to be&nbsp; agood cause, I suspect most evil these days in wrapped up with crime.&nbsp; Do you think the drug dealers, muggers, and pimps actually think they're helping anyone?&nbsp; I doubt it. Common misconception here - his chaos/evilness cannot force him to act.&nbsp; Alignment describes what you have done, not what you will do.&nbsp; Alignment is the result of your actions and motives, not the cause of them.&nbsp; To me, alignment is a sort of long-term average of your actions and motivations - so it is a mixture of what you want to achieve, and how you live.&nbsp; But never does the alignment you've built up in the past come and compel you to act in any particular way in the present.&nbsp; Let's say that ruler committed many chaotic and evil acts before coming to power.&nbsp; If he then behaves in a lawful, organized, planned and restricted manner for a century, I'd have a hard time calling him really chaotic.&nbsp; He no longer really supports freedom of action, even his own.&nbsp; His goals are more important than personal freedom.&nbsp; But, in the end his work will certainly get rid of any organized structurehe's built, and then some.&nbsp; So, in the balance at the end of it all, maybe he's more Neutral than Chaotic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 1867998, member: 177"] In the real world, we have no absolute measure against which we may measure our behaviors and motivations. In D&D, we do. In D&D, evil is the result of actions that cause pain, suffering, oppression, and other forms of harm. Whether or not they self-identify as Good, a person who causes those things when he could do otherwise is committing evil acts, and will be evil. IN D&D, there is a point (determined by the individual DM) where the ends no longer justify the means, and the harm caused by actions outweighs good results. Though, honestly, I don't know if it is true that in the real world evil people almost never self-identify as evil. While there may be the occasional leader who does evil things for what they believe to be agood cause, I suspect most evil these days in wrapped up with crime. Do you think the drug dealers, muggers, and pimps actually think they're [i]helping[/i] anyone? I doubt it. Common misconception here - his chaos/evilness [i]cannot[/i] force him to act. Alignment describes what you have done, not what you will do. Alignment is the result of your actions and motives, not the cause of them. To me, alignment is a sort of long-term average of your actions and motivations - so it is a mixture of what you want to achieve, and how you live. But never does the alignment you've built up in the past come and compel you to act in any particular way in the present. Let's say that ruler committed many chaotic and evil acts before coming to power. If he then behaves in a lawful, organized, planned and restricted manner for a century, I'd have a hard time calling him really chaotic. He no longer really supports freedom of action, even his own. His goals are more important than personal freedom. But, in the end his work will certainly get rid of any organized structurehe's built, and then some. So, in the balance at the end of it all, maybe he's more Neutral than Chaotic. [/QUOTE]

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