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ShortQuests -- individual adventure modules! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed to plug in to your game.

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Toe Knee Nose" data-source="post: 9885900" data-attributes="member: 7050577">Someone mentioned earlier that Roman society would be LE.  I'm not sure - or, rather, it really depends on the time period.  After all, for a long time, the Roman Empire had no rules of succession.  Every time an emperor died, they basically had a murder fest and whoever was the biggest murderous bastard became the next emperor by dint of everyone else with any claim to the title was dead. Yes, I know that's an exaggeration, but, not totally off base either. In any society, whether it's a local group of a few dozen to an empire, if the guy running the show is not bound by anything other than fear of reprisal, that's chaotic.  And typically very evil.  Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge is a perfect example of a CE society. So, to go back to the OP - that's how you do smart CE.  The smart CE is horrific.  It's groups that are fanatically loyal to an individual.  In D&D terms, probably the best examples of this would be cultists.  Rakshasa work well for this as well as evil fae.  Actually, evil fae are fantastic examples of smart CE.  There is an adventure in Candlekeep Mysteries where a group of evil fae drive the local people into insanity, causing them to murder each other in horrific ways. Thinking about it a bit, horror does provide some pretty decent CE archetypes.  Freddy Krueger is a great example of CE.  He delights in the pain and torture he inflicts and he has no bigger plans than his own gratification (I suppose you could make a decent NE argument here).  Lucifer from the Supernatural series is a FANTASTIC example of Chaotic Evil done right.  Hannibal Lecter also works.  Lecter has zero interest in anything other than his own gratification and dominating everything and everyone around him.  He wants to turn everyone around him into his personal puppets for his own amusement.-------------------At the end of the day, that's how I thread this needle.  Chaotic Evils want to dominate everyone around them.  They want to be surrounded by people who will do whatever they are told to do no matter what.  Whether that's achieved by sheer power and fear or through gaslighting and manipulation doesn't really matter.  Whatever achieves that goal of domination.Lawful Evils, OTOH, aren't so much interested in dominating everyone around them but are more interested in creating a system where everyone is loyal to the system itself with the LE individual at the top of that pyramid.  They create an organization, or, better yet, co-opt an organization where everyone in that organization is loyal to the organization, which means that everyone is loyal to the person above them.  The LE wants to climb that ladder and will do anything to climb that ladder, but, at no point do they want to burn the ladder.  The ladder itself has value.  LE groups tend to be longer lasting since they will survive the death of any individual - the organization keeps going on.  Lawfuls tend to be better organized than chaotics.  Is one method more successful than the other?  Well... that depends on how you define success.  Longevity of the group is important to the lawfuls, but, the chaotics couldn't really care less what happens after they are gone.  "I'm at the top of the heap, all hail to me!" is the goal of the Chaotic Evil.</blockquote>

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