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D&D Older Editions
How do you feel about 4E right *now*? (week of 1/21/08)
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4006117" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I find it helpful to distinguish very clearly between build rules and action resolution rules. It seems clear to me that 4e will wind back the complexity of build rules for those game elements that are primarily GM-controlled (monsters, other NPCs, maybe magic items - though these are in a bit of a halfway position between GM and player control). It won't be build-by-fiat, it will be build with an eye to level (both for monsters/NPCs and for items this has been made pretty clear). There will be guidelines, perhaps even strict rules, as to what counts as level appropriate.</p><p></p><p>But the action resolution mechanics will be uniform, I think, across GMs and players. So in that respect the game will be nothing like 1st ed AD&D.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I was thinking mostly of wandering monsters, and also the benefits of looting without having to fight - in my experience gold XP sufficiently swamped monster XP that if you could get the gold without fighting that was a good thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>4e will follow 3E in this respect, I think: XP will be awarded for challenges overcome. So a purely metagame XP system (with a very thin simulationist veneer for those who squint, and thereby convince themselves that the sole way to improvement is through testing oneself against challenges).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I take your point. There will be other sorts of challenges than combat - that's pretty clear, I think. But I don't think there will be quest/goal XP of the sort you're talking about.</p><p></p><p>It might be possible to easily jack on such a system, but I think you'd want to make sure that it still rewarded detailed exploration, by players in play, of their various character abilities - which will be mostly combat focused. A variant on this would be awarding XP only for challenges that are motivated in a certain way (by goals/quests) - this might require very little change to the mechanics but reduce the pressure to grind.</p><p></p><p>Maybe, but I think some systems handle it better than others. Because D&D so easily produces characters with superhuman physical prowess (and that's before we get into the magic) I think it has only a limited ability to handle realism. I like the fact that 4e seems to be embracing this from the get-go in it's world setup, rather than trying to ignore it and going for (pseudo-)historical accuracy.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't mind the default setting at all - I actually quite like it, and it's deliberate anti-anthropological bias (justified by an appeal to the preponderance of non-human factors in D&D society). From what little I know about it, I'm inclined to agree with you about FR.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair enough. I'm hopeful that 4e will be a major improvement in the standard of D&D as a game, which hopefully will have broader ramifications for the whole RPG scene (given it's the gateway of choice for nearly all players) as well as making for good D&D play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 4006117, member: 42582"] I find it helpful to distinguish very clearly between build rules and action resolution rules. It seems clear to me that 4e will wind back the complexity of build rules for those game elements that are primarily GM-controlled (monsters, other NPCs, maybe magic items - though these are in a bit of a halfway position between GM and player control). It won't be build-by-fiat, it will be build with an eye to level (both for monsters/NPCs and for items this has been made pretty clear). There will be guidelines, perhaps even strict rules, as to what counts as level appropriate. But the action resolution mechanics will be uniform, I think, across GMs and players. So in that respect the game will be nothing like 1st ed AD&D. I was thinking mostly of wandering monsters, and also the benefits of looting without having to fight - in my experience gold XP sufficiently swamped monster XP that if you could get the gold without fighting that was a good thing. 4e will follow 3E in this respect, I think: XP will be awarded for challenges overcome. So a purely metagame XP system (with a very thin simulationist veneer for those who squint, and thereby convince themselves that the sole way to improvement is through testing oneself against challenges). I take your point. There will be other sorts of challenges than combat - that's pretty clear, I think. But I don't think there will be quest/goal XP of the sort you're talking about. It might be possible to easily jack on such a system, but I think you'd want to make sure that it still rewarded detailed exploration, by players in play, of their various character abilities - which will be mostly combat focused. A variant on this would be awarding XP only for challenges that are motivated in a certain way (by goals/quests) - this might require very little change to the mechanics but reduce the pressure to grind. Maybe, but I think some systems handle it better than others. Because D&D so easily produces characters with superhuman physical prowess (and that's before we get into the magic) I think it has only a limited ability to handle realism. I like the fact that 4e seems to be embracing this from the get-go in it's world setup, rather than trying to ignore it and going for (pseudo-)historical accuracy. I don't mind the default setting at all - I actually quite like it, and it's deliberate anti-anthropological bias (justified by an appeal to the preponderance of non-human factors in D&D society). From what little I know about it, I'm inclined to agree with you about FR. Fair enough. I'm hopeful that 4e will be a major improvement in the standard of D&D as a game, which hopefully will have broader ramifications for the whole RPG scene (given it's the gateway of choice for nearly all players) as well as making for good D&D play. [/QUOTE]
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