Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How do you feel about DMPCs?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 6206792" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>There is no official definition. A DMPC is just a type of NPC (as the DM is not a player)*. An NPC that travels with the party can be considered a DMPC (generally a negative term) but there's no hard-core definition, anymore than there's a hard-core definition for a Mary Sue. An NPC is more likely to be considered a DMPC if they play a lead role instead of fading into the background.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's too many definitions (and you're not giving enough info, except about the kobold) to say whether those are DMPCs or not, but "excellent" NPCs that accompany PCs <em>sometimes</em> aggravate players. It's probably not a good idea to have NPCs travel with the PCs that are higher-level than them though, especially if it's obvious.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good <strong>if</strong> the party doesn't already have a dedicated archer. (The players were looking for an archer, suggesting they didn't have one.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. If you're already got a PC healer, you don't need an NPC healer. If you already have a PC rogue, you don't need an NPC rogue. If you've got a PC bard, you don't need an NPC face. Overlapping is generally bad. It might be okay if you desperately need more than one character in a role (eg a large party that is too much for a single healing PC to handle).</p><p></p><p>Of course, simply asking the players if they need another "X" is a good way to avoid this problem. You might think they don't want another healer when they do, or you might think they want another healer when they don't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whether he's a DMPC or not depends on whether he's taking a lead role. In this case, he's not, unless he's telling PCs to throw him down hallways.</p><p></p><p>This is a kind of NPC to avoid. Not that it's your fault, as you didn't seem to expect PCs to use him as an "easy mode" trap detector. I went through a GURPS Traveller (of all things!) adventure where we encountered a colony of sapient (Int 7 or 8-equivalent) anthropomorphic penguins that can turn invisible (no, that's not a typo) and unfortunately most of the PCs tried to use them as scouts. (Between lack of Intelligence and having little familiarity with technology, they made poor scouts. One mistook a cleaning robot as a combat robot!) Making matters worse, most of the PCs were cowardly, so they were really insistent on using an invisible scout. They ignored me when I said stupid scouts were... stupid ... until the cleaning "deadly" robot incident.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A DMPC is easy to mess up. That's why some people avoid them. Does this mean that DMPCs are automatically bad? No. But they're easy to mess up. If I were to use myself as an example, I wouldn't mind painting my bedroom walls (easy to do, hard to mess up) but I wouldn't try to write a business budget (hard to do without proper training, easy to mess up).</p><p></p><p>Most people overestimate their own skills. DMs do this too.</p><p></p><p>*Unless you've got rotating DMs in the same campaign. Is that common? People rarely disdain these PC/NPC "hybrids".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 6206792, member: 1165"] There is no official definition. A DMPC is just a type of NPC (as the DM is not a player)*. An NPC that travels with the party can be considered a DMPC (generally a negative term) but there's no hard-core definition, anymore than there's a hard-core definition for a Mary Sue. An NPC is more likely to be considered a DMPC if they play a lead role instead of fading into the background. There's too many definitions (and you're not giving enough info, except about the kobold) to say whether those are DMPCs or not, but "excellent" NPCs that accompany PCs [i]sometimes[/i] aggravate players. It's probably not a good idea to have NPCs travel with the PCs that are higher-level than them though, especially if it's obvious. Good [b]if[/b] the party doesn't already have a dedicated archer. (The players were looking for an archer, suggesting they didn't have one.) Yes. If you're already got a PC healer, you don't need an NPC healer. If you already have a PC rogue, you don't need an NPC rogue. If you've got a PC bard, you don't need an NPC face. Overlapping is generally bad. It might be okay if you desperately need more than one character in a role (eg a large party that is too much for a single healing PC to handle). Of course, simply asking the players if they need another "X" is a good way to avoid this problem. You might think they don't want another healer when they do, or you might think they want another healer when they don't. Whether he's a DMPC or not depends on whether he's taking a lead role. In this case, he's not, unless he's telling PCs to throw him down hallways. This is a kind of NPC to avoid. Not that it's your fault, as you didn't seem to expect PCs to use him as an "easy mode" trap detector. I went through a GURPS Traveller (of all things!) adventure where we encountered a colony of sapient (Int 7 or 8-equivalent) anthropomorphic penguins that can turn invisible (no, that's not a typo) and unfortunately most of the PCs tried to use them as scouts. (Between lack of Intelligence and having little familiarity with technology, they made poor scouts. One mistook a cleaning robot as a combat robot!) Making matters worse, most of the PCs were cowardly, so they were really insistent on using an invisible scout. They ignored me when I said stupid scouts were... stupid ... until the cleaning "deadly" robot incident. A DMPC is easy to mess up. That's why some people avoid them. Does this mean that DMPCs are automatically bad? No. But they're easy to mess up. If I were to use myself as an example, I wouldn't mind painting my bedroom walls (easy to do, hard to mess up) but I wouldn't try to write a business budget (hard to do without proper training, easy to mess up). Most people overestimate their own skills. DMs do this too. *Unless you've got rotating DMs in the same campaign. Is that common? People rarely disdain these PC/NPC "hybrids". [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How do you feel about DMPCs?
Top