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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5898806" data-attributes="member: 95493">I want an explanation that doesn't follow the cause. I want me to go "okay, my character thinks 'I really need to get up here, the party will die without me.'" and through a process in the rules miraculously gets up and keeps fighting. That is where the events shape the result. I don't want the opposite which seems to occur whenever I am in a discussion about 4e mechanics. I don't want the following to happen, "Okay, I've fallen down. I roll my d20 and get back up and continue fighting." I don't want the mechanic to drive the event. I want the cause to follow from the event. Now sometimes, in my model it will be that I desperately want or need to get back up and can't. However I find that far preferable to the other way which is where I want to get up (but have no "need") and happen to be lucky enough to do so.Where did I say anything about leaders using their spells/powers/exploits to trigger healing to be different than 3e cleric hitting with a cure spell? If I did then I apologize. I have completely different issues with warlords shouting at fallen allies* but that is not at all what I have meant to (or recall) bringing up in this thread.Except HS aren't fatigue. Yes there is a diminishing returns policy with them but they aren't fatigued by using a surge, they are heightened. The only time you could try and justify this "fatigue" is when they are completely spent of HS but even then it is just a resource which is out. It is like calling a PC is poor because they are out of gold to spend on more gear. If they don't have their gear AND they don't have money for new gear then yeah I could buy that argument. If they don't have HS but still have the majority of their other daily and encounter powers then I think the point becomes quite moot.*I could be satisfied very simply if he somehow gave temp HP and if he couldn't do it when they were unconscious and a few other adjustments but that is neither here nor there for this argument about HS, AFAIK.</blockquote>

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