How do you feel about monster templates?

[Pour]

Given the current state of monsters in the game, and the way in which you personally prep, improvise and design, how much worth do you put into monster templates? Worth it? Not worth it? Interested in new ones?

 

[Scribble]

Given the current state of monsters in the game, and the way in which you personally prep, improvise and design, how much worth do you put into monster templates? Worth it? Not worth it? Interested in new ones?

Eh... I pretty much never bother with them. I don't like how they make the monster an elite. I'd rather just use the "theme" type powers, or just re-flavor the powers they already have.

 

[S'mon]

Never used one.

 

[the Jester]

In 4e it is just so easy to build a monster that templates are really lame.

In 3e they were amazingly cool. I miss that.

I would honestly not bother with them in 4e, ever.

 

[Pour]

Thanks guys! Alternatively, [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION], [MENTION=23977]Scribble[/MENTION], and [MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION], do you ever consider the alternate powers presented in the back of certain splat books like Open Grave and Draconomicon? Or Scribs, if the template did not affect the monster's standing, or even changed its role, would you be interested then?

I don't mean to be cryptic, but we're working on Dark Roads and Golden Hells over at the KQ forums, and I want to be ready to provide 4e conversion and support. As Jester mentioned, templates are huge for Pathfinder, I'm working out what the 4e equivalent really is, if it isn't just a monster block DMs reskin.

 

[Nyronus]

Back before I basically mastered the monster creation rules inside and out, I used a few. Some of them work o.k., such as the Zealous Demagoug style one, or the Undead Master one. The problem with them is, save for a few, that they do very little to actually make the creature an elite. Very few of them actually increase the damage out-put of the creature, turning it into a sack of hit-points, and lets not even talk about using two templates to make a Solo.

So far the best template is the one for an ooze possesed by Jubilex. That one is the best by far. Shame how niche it is though.

Edit: If your looking at it, modeling templates after the Jubilex one wouldn't be bad. There are also themes and alternative power as well.

 

[Scribble]

Thanks guys! Alternatively, do you ever consider the alternate powers presented in the back of certain splat books like Open Grave and Draconomicon? Or Scribs, if the template did not affect the monster's standing, or even changed its role, would you be interested then?

Sorry for an equally cryptic answer, but... maybe?

I DO use the swap powers, but I don't really look at them as the "end all be all" of whatever theme they're trying to accomplish. I just basically use them as a pre-made selection I can choose from.

I think in 3e templates were kind of "needed." For me, at least, creating a new monster from scratch was an arduous process- templates let me bypass that process and somewhat more quickly modify a monster to be more suited to what I wanted/needed. It still wasn't "fast," but without them, I probably wouldn't have done much at all to the standard monsters aside from flavor.

I find 4e monsters so easy to build/modify that I don't have any "need" for templates. They're a neat source of ideas, but no longer a needed tool.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, I sometimes consider swapping abilities out, but usually if I am going to change one I'll just custom build it from scratch.

Then again, I am one of those guys who totally loves monster building, so you should prolly factor that in.

 

[Pour]

Sorry for an equally cryptic answer, but... maybe?

I DO use the swap powers, but I don't really look at them as the "end all be all" of whatever theme they're trying to accomplish. I just basically use them as a pre-made selection I can choose from.

I think in 3e templates were kind of "needed." For me, at least, creating a new monster from scratch was an arduous process- templates let me bypass that process and somewhat more quickly modify a monster to be more suited to what I wanted/needed. It still wasn't "fast," but without them, I probably wouldn't have done much at all to the standard monsters aside from flavor.

I find 4e monsters so easy to build/modify that I don't have any "need" for templates. They're a neat source of ideas, but no longer a needed tool.

Hope that makes sense?

Totally. So I guess I'm better off creating 4e analogues to their templates of a level I feel appropriate for the theme, and if someone likes the powers or features of the monster, they can gank them or otherwise adjust the monster's level.

Also, thanks [MENTION=93419]Nyronus[/MENTION] for the heads up on Jubilex. I remember liking the material. I'll give it a review.

If I could continue to pick your brains, do you think something like a PC theme, but for a monster, would work? It wouldn't be as static as a template, say, but powers and traits that evolve/scale over Heroic, Paragon and Epic? Maybe there isn't a real difference, but just kind of brainstorming.

 

[Nyronus]

Totally. So I guess I'm better off creating 4e analogues to their templates of a level I feel appropriate for the theme, and if someone likes the powers or features of the monster, they can gank them or otherwise adjust the monster's level.

Also, thanks @Nyronus for the heads up on Jubilex. I remember liking the material. I'll give it a review.

If I could continue to pick your brains, do you think something like a PC theme, but for a monster, would work? It wouldn't be as static as a template, say, but powers and traits that evolve/scale over Heroic, Paragon and Epic? Maybe there isn't a real difference, but just kind of brainstorming.

Consider the themes in the DMG2: they more or less do the exact thing your looking for.