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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6500742" data-attributes="member: 177">But &quot;great&quot; is not an objective, well-defined term.&nbsp; If you say, &quot;we need to be GREAT,&quot;&nbsp; I am driven to ask - Great at what?&nbsp; For whom?&nbsp; What is great for a 12 year old kid is not necessarily great for a 40 year old.&nbsp; In fact, audiences can be pretty solidly opposed in their needs and desires, so the addition of mature material, which is not suitable for all audiences, does not promote greatness, in general.&nbsp; At best it promotes the greatness that you, personally, seek.1) No, art does not need to be dangerous.&nbsp; Leonardo da Vinci took no particularly great risks in painting the Mona Lisa, you know.&nbsp; There's no danger in it.2) What is in the game books won't make the actual thing in play &quot;art&quot;.&nbsp; That requires a certain dedication, talent, and skill on the part of the players.&nbsp; Your argument really assumes players who have a goal of producing art, rather than engaging in play - so far, we are talking about role playing *game* systems, not role playing art-facilitation systems.&nbsp; I submit that, if you want a way to produce artistic improvisational theatrics at home, the large amount of material designed to facilitate *play* serves as baggage to that end, and you'd be far better off with some other system for the purpose.&nbsp; 3) RPGs and art have a problem - while a session of RPG can have artful moments, overall, it suffers from the fact that art typically requires rehearsal, editing, and/or revision to produce, and RPG play is typically improvised one-offs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6500742, member: 177"] But "great" is not an objective, well-defined term. If you say, "we need to be GREAT," I am driven to ask - Great at what? For whom? What is great for a 12 year old kid is not necessarily great for a 40 year old. In fact, audiences can be pretty solidly opposed in their needs and desires, so the addition of mature material, which is not suitable for all audiences, does not promote greatness, in general. At best it promotes the greatness that you, personally, seek. 1) No, art does not need to be dangerous. Leonardo da Vinci took no particularly great risks in painting the Mona Lisa, you know. There's no danger in it. 2) What is in the game books won't make the actual thing in play "art". That requires a certain dedication, talent, and skill on the part of the players. Your argument really assumes players who have a goal of producing art, rather than engaging in play - so far, we are talking about role playing *game* systems, not role playing art-facilitation systems. I submit that, if you want a way to produce artistic improvisational theatrics at home, the large amount of material designed to facilitate *play* serves as baggage to that end, and you'd be far better off with some other system for the purpose. 3) RPGs and art have a problem - while a session of RPG can have artful moments, overall, it suffers from the fact that art typically requires rehearsal, editing, and/or revision to produce, and RPG play is typically improvised one-offs. [/QUOTE]

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