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<blockquote data-quote="amethal" data-source="post: 8597968" data-attributes="member: 22784">That's a good point.I get frustrated with &quot;core only, for the sake of balance&quot; DMs in Pathfinder games, since I'm perfectly capable of breaking the game with a core-only Wizard or Druid (I choose not to, obviously) but this means I can't try out something that looks be fun but certainly not unbalanced, like a Sylph Investigator. (I get especially grumpy if we then have to fight an NPC investigator at a later date ...)I remember when the Synthesist Summoner archetype came out for Pathfinder. There was a clamour for it to be banned, as clearly overpowered (and I believe it was banned for organised play) but it became clear (to some people, at least) that the way the action economy works in Pathfinder, a Synthesist Summoner was probably less powerful than the standard summoner, since its personal power came at the cost of giving up the eidolon.The problem with the synthesist summoner was that it was clearly better at fighting than any of the martial classes (if &quot;clear&quot; is the right word, given how confusingly written it was) but for a normal summoner to be (even) better the player had to properly design the eidolon and then support it with appropriate spells. (We once did a one off session where everybody brought along a level 15 character designed for the occasion; the summoner's eidolon would win initiative, charge/pounce, attack a dozen times and rip apart a CR 15+ monster before it even got a chance to act.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="amethal, post: 8597968, member: 22784"] That's a good point. I get frustrated with "core only, for the sake of balance" DMs in Pathfinder games, since I'm perfectly capable of breaking the game with a core-only Wizard or Druid (I choose not to, obviously) but this means I can't try out something that looks be fun but certainly not unbalanced, like a Sylph Investigator. (I get especially grumpy if we then have to fight an NPC investigator at a later date ...) I remember when the Synthesist Summoner archetype came out for Pathfinder. There was a clamour for it to be banned, as clearly overpowered (and I believe it was banned for organised play) but it became clear (to some people, at least) that the way the action economy works in Pathfinder, a Synthesist Summoner was probably less powerful than the standard summoner, since its personal power came at the cost of giving up the eidolon. The problem with the synthesist summoner was that it was clearly better at fighting than any of the martial classes (if "clear" is the right word, given how confusingly written it was) but for a normal summoner to be (even) better the player had to properly design the eidolon and then support it with appropriate spells. (We once did a one off session where everybody brought along a level 15 character designed for the occasion; the summoner's eidolon would win initiative, charge/pounce, attack a dozen times and rip apart a CR 15+ monster before it even got a chance to act.) [/QUOTE]

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