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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 2251640" data-attributes="member: 4937">You can do one of three things.1) Play with skilled RPers.  Usually RPers can sense from the DM's description and the pacing of the adventure whether or not now is the time to fight, or now is a time to retreat and prepare.  Also, experienced gamers understand that the dungeon terrain generally favors the monsters, and that if they take that advantage away and fight on ground they already understand and have mapped then so much the better.  It's kind of like the U.S. militaries guide to assualting urban terrain.  Whenever possible, remove the terrain.2) Play with players that really know the rules inside and out and have them confront a foe that they know exactly what is OOC, and that they know OOC that they can't handle at all.3) Use CoC/Ravenloft style fear mechanics.  Generally the way this works is that they know if the mechanic causes thier characters to be afraid, then its probable that the monster is powerful enough that they should be afraid - but that if it doesn't (especially if some people got only average or poor rolls), then this probably the time to stand and fight."Do they need special training?"Sometimes. I make it a point when starting a new campaign to teach this lesson at 1st level by having the party encounter something obviously well over thier heads that simply isn't that interested in killing them.  For example, they could find a Frost Giant moving across country, who isn't interested in a fight even if the PC's are.  He's just trying to visit his cousins in the next mountain range, and he's hot, tired, slightly lost, and he would like directions from the PC's.  And so forth.  "Is this just a player thing where they metagame, thinking that the DM would not throw anything at their PC that was too tough?"Basically, PC's do what they believe they are expected to do and what has proved effective in the past.  The problem with most PC parties is that the have never met a gordian knot that they couldn't cut in two with good sword swing, so they don't bother to talk to monsters that they meet, they don't bother to barter, negotiatie, or parley, and they certainly don't retreat.  In fact, alot of times they are right to do this because some DM's just penalize the players for doing so.  It doesn't take alot of times of trying to do something other than jumping in with swords swinging, spells zinging, and arrows flying and then get slapped for it or other accomplishing nothing but delaying the fight for a round or two before PC's just stop bothering.  It's actually amazing to me when I get new players how many inoffensive monsters designed to provide some help to diplomatic PC's just get cut down before conversations even begin."Do they figure that their PC must be able to defeat it somehow?"If this has generally been a good assumption in the past, why shouldn't it be a good assumption now?"Sometimes you can give players all the hints in the world but it does not stop them hurtling towards a TPK. Will only an army of beholder riding mindflayers make them feel like they were possibly outmatched?"Option #2.  Alot of players simply pay no attention whatsoever to DM color.  Again, it surprises me how many players ignore my descriptions - literally ignore them - and don't think I'm saying anything of importance to them unless the dice are rolling.  It does take training to get a player to realize that there is more to the game than rolling the dice, and some players simply won't get it because they don't enjoy any part of the game that doesn't involve rolling the dice.  If monsters generally are faster, then running away usually isn't an option.  If you expect running away to be the outcome of the encounter, make the monster the one in plate mail, or with a 20' move.  There are huge problems with heavy armor, to the point that none of the PC's in any long campaigns have worn it.  The extra point or three of AC often isn't worth not being able to make a reasonable withdraw, and the problems you get into with balance, climb, and swim.  If your party does rely on it, you are probably going to have a problem because some players consider it part of their 'character concept' what sort of armor they wear.  That puts you in an awkward position as a DM, because while that is a rather novice understanding of what it means to role play, but it is at least a start and you don't want to discourage it too much.  It might even be worth it for you as a DM to meta game a little and 'offer' the player a decent suit of medium armor (approprait to thier level but still very attractive) and open up your options as a DM.</blockquote>

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