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General Tabletop Discussion
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How do YOU handle a Fastball Special, and other team manuevers?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hawk Diesel" data-source="post: 7589427" data-attributes="member: 59848"><p>So I see 2 basic camps for those opposed to things like the fastball special maneuver.</p><p></p><p>Camp 1 is the immersion/simulationist group. Now, I don't really agree with this camp, but I can respect it. From my perspective, D&D is not Humans & Houses. I don't think this kind of game can ever be truly simulationist. Additionally, even low magic settings akin to Conan the Barbarian is still based in fantasy. Conan and his allies could achieve feats far greater than any real living person. If these characters were completely normal or average, they could still be interesting, but that isn't really what fantasy is about. Someone mentioned a Supers game being more appropriate, but D&D is still a game where dragons can fly and breathe fire, mortals can summon the elements to their command, necromancers raise armies of undead, and berserker warriors can go into battle without armor and have a real chance of not only surviving, but throttling their enemies. It becomes an argument of not whether it's possible in a D&D game, but to what degree is the success measured. For those that want to play a game with the players being real characters, that seems like a game more suited to systems like Call of Cthulu. But like I said, people play and enjoy D&D for a number of reasons, while it's not my style or cup of tea, it is of equal merit to my style.</p><p></p><p>Camp 2 seems to be of people that worry about breaking the game or giving the players something that can be exploited. These people seem to be risk averse in what they allow. Which is also fine. But I would challenge this group to try things before they unleash the ban / nerf hammer. For one, the players may only try it once and never again, making it a fun one of. But if you open the can of worms, as DM you can easily put the worms back. If players seem to be taking advantage of a ruling made off the cuff for eother fun or to keep things moving, have a conversation with your players. Let them know that you notice they are taking advantage of your allowance, how it affects the game and your enjoyment, and get their feedback and thoughts. It may not have occurred to them what you see, or they may have reasoning you hadn't considered, and you can discuss as a group whether the maneuver adds or substract from the fun of the game for the group. Then decide if you continue to allow the maneuver, modify it, or ban it. This mature approach allows you to be an experimental DM, while having a means to undo any unforeseen consequences of your adjudicating of the game.</p><p></p><p>Either way, we are all playing a dice game based in imagination with easily discarded rules. The only limits are self-imposed. Hopefully your limits allow greater fun and enhance creativity, rather than stifle it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hawk Diesel, post: 7589427, member: 59848"] So I see 2 basic camps for those opposed to things like the fastball special maneuver. Camp 1 is the immersion/simulationist group. Now, I don't really agree with this camp, but I can respect it. From my perspective, D&D is not Humans & Houses. I don't think this kind of game can ever be truly simulationist. Additionally, even low magic settings akin to Conan the Barbarian is still based in fantasy. Conan and his allies could achieve feats far greater than any real living person. If these characters were completely normal or average, they could still be interesting, but that isn't really what fantasy is about. Someone mentioned a Supers game being more appropriate, but D&D is still a game where dragons can fly and breathe fire, mortals can summon the elements to their command, necromancers raise armies of undead, and berserker warriors can go into battle without armor and have a real chance of not only surviving, but throttling their enemies. It becomes an argument of not whether it's possible in a D&D game, but to what degree is the success measured. For those that want to play a game with the players being real characters, that seems like a game more suited to systems like Call of Cthulu. But like I said, people play and enjoy D&D for a number of reasons, while it's not my style or cup of tea, it is of equal merit to my style. Camp 2 seems to be of people that worry about breaking the game or giving the players something that can be exploited. These people seem to be risk averse in what they allow. Which is also fine. But I would challenge this group to try things before they unleash the ban / nerf hammer. For one, the players may only try it once and never again, making it a fun one of. But if you open the can of worms, as DM you can easily put the worms back. If players seem to be taking advantage of a ruling made off the cuff for eother fun or to keep things moving, have a conversation with your players. Let them know that you notice they are taking advantage of your allowance, how it affects the game and your enjoyment, and get their feedback and thoughts. It may not have occurred to them what you see, or they may have reasoning you hadn't considered, and you can discuss as a group whether the maneuver adds or substract from the fun of the game for the group. Then decide if you continue to allow the maneuver, modify it, or ban it. This mature approach allows you to be an experimental DM, while having a means to undo any unforeseen consequences of your adjudicating of the game. Either way, we are all playing a dice game based in imagination with easily discarded rules. The only limits are self-imposed. Hopefully your limits allow greater fun and enhance creativity, rather than stifle it. [/QUOTE]
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