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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7789210" data-attributes="member: 6801845">While I think the &quot;goal and approach&quot; meme if overblown, I can easily put it in those terms.The declaration of insight tells me that the PC has the goal of determining whether someone is being deceptive with the approach of studying their words and non-verbal clues closely.Does anyone ever really have the following conversation?&nbsp; Player: I attack the orc with my longsword.
DM: Okay, give me an attack roll.Because I don't remember that conversation in hundreds (thousands?) of hours of play. It's usually some variation of &quot;Does an 18 hit?&quot;&nbsp; I don't play &quot;<s>mother</s> DM may I&quot; and would find it annoying.&nbsp; When it comes to creatures only being affected by magical weapons, I let the players attempt to hit.&nbsp; They don't know that the target is immune until they've hit and it did no visible damage.As far as insight being useful for other things, I don't see how that's relevant to the conversation.The activity being resolved is the insight check.&nbsp; If the NPC is using deception, how would you everknow to ask for an insight check unless the players indicate that they are suspicious?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7789210, member: 6801845"] While I think the "goal and approach" meme if overblown, I can easily put it in those terms. The declaration of insight tells me that the PC has the goal of determining whether someone is being deceptive with the approach of studying their words and non-verbal clues closely. Does anyone ever really have the following conversation? [INDENT]Player: I attack the orc with my longsword.[/INDENT] [INDENT]DM: Okay, give me an attack roll.[/INDENT] Because I don't remember that conversation in hundreds (thousands?) of hours of play. It's usually some variation of "Does an 18 hit?" I don't play "[S]mother[/S] DM may I" and would find it annoying. When it comes to creatures only being affected by magical weapons, I let the players attempt to hit. They don't know that the target is immune until they've hit and it did no visible damage. As far as insight being useful for other things, I don't see how that's relevant to the conversation. The activity being resolved is the insight check. If the NPC is using deception, how would you ever know to ask for an insight check unless the players indicate that they are suspicious? [/QUOTE]

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