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<blockquote data-quote="Sleepy Walker" data-source="post: 7354998" data-attributes="member: 6924770">What sage advice says, which is identical to the rules in the PHB on page 189The order goes-determine surprise-establish positions-roll initiative-take turns-Begin the next roundNowhere does it say surprise is lost if a creature takes a turn first.&nbsp; Nowhere in sage advice does it say a creature loses surprise if it goes before a PC. Sage advice indicates that once a creature is designated as surprised, it is surprised the entire round. RAW with intent added.&nbsp; Clunky, but every indication is that is how it is supposed to work.Now you might have gotten confused because I had a sentence where I said it all happened outside of combat.&nbsp; I was meaning that the act of the rogue to make an excuse to break line of sight, stealth, and/or decide to attack, since outside of initiative is really the only way a surprise round can be initiated anyways.Nothing stops the assassin from getting a critical hit on a surprised creature.&nbsp; That does not mean the assassin gets sneak dice, though if the assassin happens to be invisible or there is a friend within 5ft or the DM rules the assassin has advantage for any other reasons then he/she/it would get sneak dice and a critical hit.Is this good?&nbsp; Not really.&nbsp; Does it confer a benefit if used properly, yes.&nbsp; Does it mean the rogue has to be way far away from the party to use its assassinate ability? No.&nbsp; Is it more useful in social instances, like infiltrating a palace, killing nobles, or otherwise striking against targets not expecting to be struck, instead of straight up combat?&nbsp; Absolutely.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sleepy Walker, post: 7354998, member: 6924770"] What sage advice says, which is identical to the rules in the PHB on page 189 The order goes -determine surprise -establish positions -roll initiative -take turns -Begin the next round Nowhere does it say surprise is lost if a creature takes a turn first. Nowhere in sage advice does it say a creature loses surprise if it goes before a PC. Sage advice indicates that once a creature is designated as surprised, it is surprised the entire round. RAW with intent added. Clunky, but every indication is that is how it is supposed to work. Now you might have gotten confused because I had a sentence where I said it all happened outside of combat. I was meaning that the act of the rogue to make an excuse to break line of sight, stealth, and/or decide to attack, since outside of initiative is really the only way a surprise round can be initiated anyways. Nothing stops the assassin from getting a critical hit on a surprised creature. That does not mean the assassin gets sneak dice, though if the assassin happens to be invisible or there is a friend within 5ft or the DM rules the assassin has advantage for any other reasons then he/she/it would get sneak dice and a critical hit. Is this good? Not really. Does it confer a benefit if used properly, yes. Does it mean the rogue has to be way far away from the party to use its assassinate ability? No. Is it more useful in social instances, like infiltrating a palace, killing nobles, or otherwise striking against targets not expecting to be struck, instead of straight up combat? Absolutely. [/QUOTE]

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