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How do you handle someone who is not surprised but is unaware of any threats?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 8030852" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>I think reasonable cases can (and have) been made for the rules supporting either:</p><p></p><p>-Alert makes it so you are always aware of your foes</p><p>-Alert allows you to avoid the drawbacks of the surprised state despite not being aware of your foes</p><p></p><p>So what I’ve been asking myself is which interpretation creates a set of consequences to the game that I like better?</p><p></p><p>In asking yourself that question you have to make a few decisions that have been mostly glossed over or only brought up in passing. The first one is whether you are going to run initiative, surprise, and the round sequence according to RAW and RAI or not.</p><p></p><p>The way it officially works is that no combat actions (Attack, Ready, etc) take place before initiative is rolled. As soon as a player declares a combat action (or the DM decides a monster is going to start one), initiative is rolled by all. That means that its very likely that the person who ”initiated” initiative might lose the initiative and not be the first person to act at all. Yes, this isn’t an ideal system, but that’s what we’ve got, and should be kept in mind when discussing rules that rely on it.</p><p></p><p>So, all that established, what consequences go with the different interpretations of how Alert interacts with Surprised?</p><p></p><p>The potential consequences that I find the most undesirable include:</p><p>-Alert bypassing any and all methods of being able to attack without being noticed</p><p>-Alert characters who win initiative having no idea combat has started</p><p></p><p>The first consequence arises from the first interpretation of Alert, while the second arises from only one manner of handling the second interpretation of Alert. So for me, the way to avoid the most undesireable consequences is to take the second interpretation and avoid handling it in such a way as to reach that consequence.</p><p></p><p>The easiest way for me to do that is to say Alert gives you that spidey-sense, so that even if you don’t know what foes are out there, you know there is impending danger. I’d prefer to make it a little less precognitive seeming than that, but the feat descriptions aren’t helping. There is another feat (Observant) that makes it less likely for you to be surprised (among other benefits) by raising your Passive Perception and making you more observant of your surroundings. Alert doesn‘t. It seems to be focused more on reaction speed than awareness of environmental details. Unfortunately, that does make it difficult to determine how exactly it works when you need some indication of how it should trigger. Hence, the spidey-sense, with its precognitive overtones.</p><p></p><p>I think the best way to handle it at any table is going to depend on which set of potentially undesireable results you can live with.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 8030852, member: 6677017"] I think reasonable cases can (and have) been made for the rules supporting either: -Alert makes it so you are always aware of your foes -Alert allows you to avoid the drawbacks of the surprised state despite not being aware of your foes So what I’ve been asking myself is which interpretation creates a set of consequences to the game that I like better? In asking yourself that question you have to make a few decisions that have been mostly glossed over or only brought up in passing. The first one is whether you are going to run initiative, surprise, and the round sequence according to RAW and RAI or not. The way it officially works is that no combat actions (Attack, Ready, etc) take place before initiative is rolled. As soon as a player declares a combat action (or the DM decides a monster is going to start one), initiative is rolled by all. That means that its very likely that the person who ”initiated” initiative might lose the initiative and not be the first person to act at all. Yes, this isn’t an ideal system, but that’s what we’ve got, and should be kept in mind when discussing rules that rely on it. So, all that established, what consequences go with the different interpretations of how Alert interacts with Surprised? The potential consequences that I find the most undesirable include: -Alert bypassing any and all methods of being able to attack without being noticed -Alert characters who win initiative having no idea combat has started The first consequence arises from the first interpretation of Alert, while the second arises from only one manner of handling the second interpretation of Alert. So for me, the way to avoid the most undesireable consequences is to take the second interpretation and avoid handling it in such a way as to reach that consequence. The easiest way for me to do that is to say Alert gives you that spidey-sense, so that even if you don’t know what foes are out there, you know there is impending danger. I’d prefer to make it a little less precognitive seeming than that, but the feat descriptions aren’t helping. There is another feat (Observant) that makes it less likely for you to be surprised (among other benefits) by raising your Passive Perception and making you more observant of your surroundings. Alert doesn‘t. It seems to be focused more on reaction speed than awareness of environmental details. Unfortunately, that does make it difficult to determine how exactly it works when you need some indication of how it should trigger. Hence, the spidey-sense, with its precognitive overtones. I think the best way to handle it at any table is going to depend on which set of potentially undesireable results you can live with. [/QUOTE]
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